Fixing up a dilapidated house

I have done both things, and both have their challenges. In established neighborhoods it is common to have deed restrictions, city codes, and historical districts which might prevent you from tearing down and rebuilding a home—even if it might look the same on the outside once the work is done. Even if you are able, you lose all the benefits of being grandfathered into older building codes.

When I “renovated” the house I live in now, I was forced to meet or exceed current building, seismic, and zoning codes because I added 25% or more livable space. (Another thing to consider—many older properties, even larger ones might have very small rooms rather than open floor plans because they were built before floor and roof trusses were used and the spans were designed to be short [often leading to long narrow rooms across a bigger home] spans of no more than twelve feet (12’-0”) because that was as long as affordable joists can span. It is also possible some entity might restrict remodels to materials and methods that match the existing—but it seems those kind of historical societies wouldn’t have the power to make their rules stick; but they might just make the approval process hell for you. Again, even if you can use modern glu-lam beams to open up spaces—you will have to retrofit huge footings to support the posts that support the beam that replaces a bearing wall. The weight of the structure and its contents remain the same [live load and dead load], but now instead of being supported by a twenty or twenty-five foot long wall— it must be supported by one post at each end. That large load transfer still needs to be supported.) As a result of meeting current codes, I was forced to add ten thousand dollars worth of water retention to the property (underground tubes with holes drilled in them every eight inches or so in every direction in a bed of 2” to 5” river rock gravel wrapped in landscapers fabric to keep soil from settling into the gravel and diminishing the leaching property of it. I also had to create surface ponds that will hold rain water during a downpour. The total of these water retention measures are 80% of two hours of the worst precipitation ever recorded in the last hundred years—in my case 175 acre feet of retention before one drop of rain from my property runs into the gutter [where 100% of my neighbors rain water goes and where all of mine used to go]. After meetings and applications for variances- and endless calculations and agreement from the city civil division that this was wrong and unfair, all variances were denied. The only way to avoid that expense was to build exactly what was there before.) I was able to get the city to strike down the requirement that I jackhammer out the entire four foot wide (4’-0”) sidewalk and replace it with five foot wide (5’-0”) sidewalk because in the middle of the block where no one else was likely to renovate to the degree they would have to pull a permit made little sense. There would have been seven hundred feet of four foot sidewalk- then one hundred feet of five foot sidewalk- followed by eight hundred feet of four foot sidewalk—variance granted, saving me another $3,500-- $5,000.

I would have upgraded the plumbing and electrical anyway—but certain modern circuit breakers are VERY expensive added about two-thousand dollars to the overall cost. Another matter is that many jurisdictions (most I believe) require electrical wire to be pulled by a certified electrician. There are those who will sell you their stamp and signature if they just inspect what you have done yourself—but mostly if you are going to rewire more than just a run here and there it is worth paying them. I worked on a vacation home where the homeowner and his buddy insisted on pulling the wire themselves. Every single circuit was a homerun (ran all the way to the box); after several weekends working on it the inspector red tagged it because she (yes, a woman inspector at the county office!)knew it wasn’t pulled legally. The electrician with the cert. (not an electrical contractor, a guy who was certified) pulled out all their work and rewired the thing. He was smart enough to add outlets and switches where they would do good, and delete the ones that were useless. He used half as much wire and the owner was left with enough copper to wire a huge garage and shop with living quarters above.

One big problem with “renovation” is that most people think of surfaces when they think of renovation. Putting granite countertops into a house designed and built before the war will give you an outdated design and impractical house little suited to modern living - - - with granite countertop! In Pennsylvania and Ohio, I saw any number of hundred year old houses with various (horrible) “updates” incorporated. Many of those were designed before indoor plumbing so when they tore down their outhouse, they converted the smallest bedroom into a bathroom; usually meaning ONE bathroom for the entire household. Certainly no master suites with luxury bathrooms and walk in closets right off the master bedroom. If you want old fashioned charm, share a bathroom with your kids. The charm tends to wear off pretty quick. But this whole post to say it is best to consult a design professional before starting on any renovations. It is SO MUCH better to start with a workable modern space plan—then try to see how the perspective property can best be altered to achieve your goals. Then you know going in you will have to sacrifice D, E, and everything after H; but you CAN have A, B if you are willing to pay and sacrifice F and G, and C for sure. It goes a long way toward being happy with the end product. It also allows you to do what you can afford now—and put some stuff off for later knowing what and where it is/will go. You can pre-wire and pre-plumb for future projects with a LOT less cost if you know this storage area will be a Jack and Jill bathroom once you have toddlers. Design professionals also know about setbacks and other restrictions (after a certain number of toilets, every pipe in a house has to be larger even if they don’t attach to a toilet for example). It also saves the buyer’s remorse of having an idea occur to you after it is too late. A design professional will ask you questions that would not occur to you until you are finished with the remodel and living there. That is why successful designs are built over and over.
To summarize, unless you plan to rehabilitate, get input from a design professional before starting any home improvement project. Even if you just plan to rebuild and repaint what is already there, it will still be harder and more expensive than you think. If you actually renovate and change things- - - there is a very good chance you will end up doing the wrong thing in the wrong place, and do it poorly.

NOTE: I wrote twice this much, but you don’t need all those examples, so I cut it back to this.

Looking at one of your links, it says they are asking $5K, and that the median price for houses in that neighborhood is $30K. If the idea is to buy it, spend $50K renovating it, and everything goes right with the renovation(it won’t), then how much do you think you can get for it if you sell? I doubt very much that you will be able to renovate the house for less than $25K.

I thought the adage was to own the cheapest house in the most expensive neighborhood, not vice versa.

If it were me, I would run away screaming.

What kind of a job were you going to get in Detroit, or were you going to live on savings while you renovate?

Regards,
Shodan

I think his idea is more to buy a more-or-less free house, and then camp in it and do half-assed repairs when he’s in the mood as if he were a squatter.

But you know, living with no water or electricity or sewage or heat gets real old real fast. Detroit has actual winters. You’re not even going to get a waterproof roof over your head, because it’s guaranteed that an abandoned house in Detroit has a leaky roof. If you’re camping you might as well just buy a vacant lot and a van, park the van in the vacant lot, and live in the van.

Get up to speed via this thread.

Of course, then if you have the van, you can just go somewhere other than Detroit. Because there is really no reason to live in Detroit if you don’t have a job or family keeping you there. From a previous thread I recall the o.p. wanting to move there based on the presumed low cost of living, but except for housing the cost of living is not significantly lower than the national mean, and there are plenty of much cheaper places to live that don’t get months of sleet, snow, and bitterly cold wind.

Stranger

I think this point needs to be highlighted more. It’s another huge red flag that the OP apparently thinks the $4000 is buying a house, not merely some lienholder’s interest in the house. It either means a potentially long and difficult journey to get title, or no title at all.

OP, do you know what a quitclaim deed is? Are you prepared for that?

The best advice I can give you is contact the local building department and do whatever they say. Keep copies of every piece of paper, and don’t do nothing without their approval. Act real nice and don’t mess around with them or question anything they tell you to do.

Remember: You cannot fight City Hall.

I was thinking about this crazy idea. This is the sort of thing a group like Habitat for Humanity does; buys a broken-down house, renovates it and sells it at cost to a formerly homeless or a poor person. And they get lots in terms of donated supplies, furnishings, materials, labor and services. And I can’t imagine even they can do that for the $50,000 the OP apparently has.

OP: what exactly do you want from the house when you are finished? For example the kitchen. Lots of people find a kitchen last renovated 40 years ago horribly old-fashioned so tear everything out and replace it with all new. Some of us would only replace what is worn out. Which are you? Likewise do you want to add another bathroom or just fix what is worn out?

If you want to make those major changes you would be better off buying a house closer to what you want.

And mosquitoes, too, right? If I can get reliable internet I can conceivably do my job from anywhere–even Detroit. I’ve gone through exactly the OP’s scenario in my head–buy a cheap piece of dirt in Detroit, rehab or raze what’s on it, and live in the construction site. I love doing that kind of work. But then I look ahead another year and think, “Well, here I am in a nice, solid dwelling in Detroit. What do I love about this place?” And I start failing to come up with answers.

Not to rag too much on Detroit—some people really seem to love it—but if you are “footloose and fancy free”, if you were going to pick a place to live semi-randomly on a map of the entire continental United States, well, Detroit would not be in my top ten for anything. In fact, Michigan as a whole would be in the bottom quartile, not because there is so much terribly wrong with it but that there is nothing particularly appealing about it. (Florida and Alabama, however, are states I would pay not to have to live in.)

Stranger

Good Lord, reading all these responses, I’ve realized that this is far and away more trouble than it’s worth. Not only the colossal expense, effort, and headache of the job itself, but having to be constantly on guard against burglars, thieves, metal scrappers, etc. in addition to being harassed by derelicts, drug addicts, gang members, and maybe corrupt municipal civil servants. Detroit has far more than its fair share of all of these.

I’d rather live in Detroit than anywhere in the deep south.

Usually, when real estate values are low, there’s a reason.

Regards,
Shodan

I can’t blame you there, but there are plenty other areas of the country outside of the Neoconfederacy that I’d reccommend long before I got down the list to Detroit.

Stranger

Not so fast. Now, if you were friends with a family or two, you go in together to buy an entire city block. Brick it off, compound style, and build a self-sustaining commune within…

Why Florida?

SHOULD READ:
… in my case 1,275 cubic feet of …

Not just might. I would bet money on it. You could put up a modest, brand new functional house for, dunno, $200K? And have it done in three to six months if you contract it, figure three or four years if you do it yourself.

With no knowledge or skills, you will spend several years making ignorant mistakes, despairing, and bleeding money, until finally you give up, with nothing to show for it. The learning curve is enormous – do you really want to learn demolition, plumbing, electrical, concrete work, masonry, rough carpentry, fine carpentry, sheetrock, insulation, roofing, duct work, and and and – every one of them a separate trade?

Even if you want to learn all those things, you would be far better served starting with a bare piece of ground.

I speak from experience.

A general contractor can build a modest (3 bedroom, ~2000 sq ft house) for less than that, not including the cost of property and landscaping if it is managed correctly and choices are made for utility rather than luxury (e.g. no fucking granite countertops that cost way too much and are prone to damage). You do not want to do a new build yourself unless you already know good contractors and are prepared to spend a year or more of your life managing and haranging them.

However, if you really want to save money and maintenance costs or get construction experience on the cheap, build a tiny house using reclaimed materials or a surplus conex container. It’s a much smaller investment but builds the same skill set, it’s movable (either if you build it on a trailer platform or make it flatbed-transportable), it eliminates the problem of having to tear an existing build down to the studs only to realize that the structure has rot/termites/mold or there is a giant crack through the middle of the foundation, and when you realize that tiny house living actually kind of sucks you can sell it to another tiny house enthusiast without taking the kind of loss you’ll take with a fixed home in a shit neighborhood. (You’ll likely still lose money, but not the hundred thousand dollars or more you’ll lose on a rehabbed house that gets vandalized because you own the best looking refurb in a meth den neighborhood.)

The biggest problem with tiny houses—other than that most people are not actually prepared to live in a small space with minimal posessions—is that zoning laws often prohibit them or restrict them to mobile home parks. There are various ways of getting around this depending on municipal codes but its worth considering as an alternative to buying a “cheap” house with the expectation of renovating on the cheap. At least with a ground up build you can make some reasonable estimates on cost without running into the kind of nasty suprises laying under the drywall of a neglected older house.

Stranger