# FLA recount updates thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2000, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498 "2000-11-09T18:08:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/1 "2000-11-09T18:08:28Z")
I was hoping we could start a thread where everyone interested could post the most recent stuff they heard about the recount. Little or no commentary, mainly the most recent most reliable news we can find. It seems there are a number of related threads in just about every forum. I’m not sure which forum this type of thread would be most appropriate in, but we might want to post links to it in the other threads as we visit them. Here’s my latest finding. Florida’s Pinellas Recount Shows Swing to Gore CLEARWATER, Fla. (Reuters) - Elections workers in Florida’s Pinellas County launched a second recount of votes on Thursday after a first recount produced a swing of more than 400 votes to Vice President Al Gore (an elections official said. The large swing was due in part to some 400 ballots that workers failed to count on election night. `They were in house but the (counting machine) operator did not follow procedure,'' Pinellas Deputy Supervisor of Elections Joan Brock said. `They hadn’t been counted election night.’’ The election night tally of 406,555 ballots cast in Pinellas, a west coast county that encompasses Clearwater and St. Petersburg, showed 200,212 votes for the vice president and 184,884 for Texas Gov. George W. Bush . The recount on Wednesday of 406,948 ballots – including those previously uncounted – had 200,616 for Gore and 184,823 for Bush. The results produced a loss of 61 votes for Bush and a gain of 404 for Gore, a net swing of 465 votes. If the Pinellas recount results hold, they would reduce the Bush margin in Florida to about 500 votes with about half of Florida’s 67 counties reporting recount results. Bush’s election night lead of 1,784 had already been reduced to 941 with early recount results. Brock said Pinellas began recounting its votes early on Thursday and would have results by midafternoon. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/2 "2000-11-09T18:18:15Z")
From the Associated Press: > [@](#): > > An unofficial tally by The Associated Press showed that Gore had cut Bush’s lead to 795 votes in Florida, with the recount complete in 45 of 67 counties. As of 12:57 Eastern. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/3 "2000-11-09T18:20:42Z")
A 400 vote swing for Gore on 400 found ballots? Am I understanding this correctly? Gore got _every single vote_ on the missing ballots? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/4 "2000-11-09T18:27:46Z")
Re-read the article again, dive, get out a pencil and paper, maybe a calculator, and post again if you have other questions. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/5 "2000-11-09T18:32:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by divemaster \* > \*\*A 400 vote swing for Gore on 400 found ballots? Am I understanding this correctly? Gore got _every single vote_ on the missing ballots? > \*\* Yep. Every single missing ballot happened to be for Gore. Funny coincidence, no? ---
**Author:** ![SterlingNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@SterlingNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SterlingNorth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/6 "2000-11-09T18:35:31Z")
News conference!!! They’re going after a hand count now. And they’re burning bridges too, I believe! ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/7 "2000-11-09T18:37:34Z")
A very small update, but at 13:14 the AP updated their story. From [here](http://wire.ap.org/?FRONTID=HOME&SITE=DCTMS&enter=Go): > [@](#): > > TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - With 46 of the state’s 67 counties completing their recounts so far today, Al Gore has trimmed George W. Bush’s lead to 79 **3** votes out of nearly 6 million cast, according to an unofficial tally by The Associated Press. State elections officials say the recount should be completed today, but officials must wait until at least Nov. 17 to certify the results. I can’t find the GD in this topic, so I’ll ask a GQ (in case that is where this gets moved to). Which news service updates the fastest? Is there a site that posts results directly from Florida, or do we have to go to a site to find the information? And to hedge my bets, I’ll ask an IMHO - What is the best, most updated, least partisan site to get news from? I’ve been bouncing back and forth between [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) and the AP wire link. Anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/8 "2000-11-09T18:39:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dinsdale \* > \*\*Re-read the article again, dive, get out a pencil and paper, maybe a calculator, and post again if you have other questions. \*\* No need to get snippy. It was a legitimate question because I did read your post and did not understand. It seemed unbelivable, so I ask for clarification. Maybe someone else without the attitude could provide it. They found 400 ballots. Gore goes up by 400. All other counties are showing very modest differences. The only added variable I see in this case is the found ballots. If the found ballots are not responsible, there must be another explanation. My interest in this other explanation is sincere. I’ve been awake for two days. Maybe it is right there in the post in front of me. If so, _gently_ point it out, please. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/9 "2000-11-09T18:44:22Z")
divemaster, I explained earlier in the other thread with this posted, but it looks like this is the vote update thread. Those votes found added up to 400. Gore gained by 400 in the county. That doesn’t mean that all 400 of those votes were Gore’s. Look at Bush’s votes. They went down by 61 in the county. Finding 400 extra ballots doesn’t make votes disappear. The article is simply stating that “the large swing was due in part to some 400 ballots that workers failed to count”, where “in part” are the key words. And we didn’t even need a pencil! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/10 "2000-11-09T18:51:18Z")
Sorry, dive. I gues I was a little frustrated b/c it is so tough to get accurate info on this type of thing. I did not realize the article was in any way unclear. IMO your comment inaccurately reflected the content of the report, and distracted from what I hoped this thread would accomplish. Sorry again. The article says there was a swing of “more than 400” based on “some 400” ballots found. According to the article (and if I can add correctly), the actual number of ballots found was 393. Recounting all 407G votes, (including the newly found ones) Bush lost 61 and Gore gained 404, for a net swing of 465 votes. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/11 "2000-11-09T18:56:08Z")
Chris Lehane just hinted that the Gore folks will not concede anything until the electoral college vote in December. (Will this be preceded by a whole new campaign directed at the electors?) ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/12 "2000-11-09T18:58:20Z")
Thanks, Connor. I have no idea what the average county “bump” is. Does a 400 or so swing seem out of line? If you graphed it, would it be one old honkin’ outlier? Would we be talking about a P of less than 0.001? If so, there must be some variable/factor causing it. Something not present or occurring in the other counties. If not missing ballots, what? Inquiring minds want to know! Of course, if other counties are showing similar swings, I withdraw the question. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/13 "2000-11-09T19:00:37Z")
Thanks to you too, Dinsdale. I can’t keep up with the speed of the board today. (And I’m at work with a report deadline staring me in the face!) Quick, another Diet Coke for the divemaster! ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/14 "2000-11-09T19:10:40Z")
Gazoo has a great link in the other thread I mentioned. Damned if I can remember which of the 1000s of election threads it is. The same one that that article was posted in by Dinsdale. Here’s what I think on the fact that Gore’s votes are steadily increasing. Gore’s voter base is in largely populated areas. The smaller counties are favored towards Bush, as can be illustrated extremely well here on MSNBC: [http://www.msnbc.com/news/466882\_asp.htm](http://www.msnbc.com/news/466882_asp.htm) Small voting places are less likely to make mistakes, due to easier access and such. Large places with large lines and large crowds and overworked officials are more likely (or so I would imagine). I would also conclude that mistakes are more likely to occur at these places, and happen to Gore/Bush in the same proportion, which is somewhat indicated by Gazoo’s link (sure wish I could find it). Dinsdale, I would have to agree that Gore should wait for the EC to vote. THAT’S where our president is elected from. There are 27 states that have electors unbound by law to vote what they pledged. While some may disagree with any deviation from this intention, that’s the way the system works. So if some elector wants to protest the system by switching his vote to coincide with the winner of the overall popular vote, so be it. At this point in our nation’s history (i.e. before any EC reform), we have to process to control this, as well we shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/15 "2000-11-09T19:12:44Z")
Man, can this be true? I just checked here at 1:10.[http://election2000.tbo.com/election2000/flacounty.htm](http://election2000.tbo.com/election2000/flacounty.htm) They say the diff is 793. They also report Pinellas Cty as n/a. 793-465=??? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/16 "2000-11-09T19:21:25Z")
[http://election2000.tbo.com/election2000/flacounty.htm](http://election2000.tbo.com/election2000/flacounty.htm) There. That should show up as a link. This is absolutely nuts. I think I’m going to have to take tomorrow off work. Wait a minute. I work for the federal government… ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/17 "2000-11-09T19:36:46Z")
I heard that the Bush camp is qestioning the 643 votes for Gore that they “found” in Palm County during the recount. This is seperate from the “missing” 400 votes that turned up for Gore. Here is another take on the legality of the ballots. This is a link to the Florida Statutes. [Florida Law](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0101/SEC5609.HTM&Title=-) > [@](#): > > (6) **Voting squares may be placed in front of or in back of the names of candidates** and statements of questions and shall be of such size as is compatible with the type of system used. Ballots and ballot information shall be printed in a size and style of type as plain and clear as the ballot spaces reasonably permit. Tear-off stubs shall be of a size suitable for the ballots used and for the requirements of the voting device. The ballots may contain special printed marks and holes as required for proper positioning and reading of the ballots by the automatic tabulating equipment. When ballots are bound into pads, they may be bound at the top or bottom or at either side. In the case of the paper ballots, all offices and questions may be printed on the same sheet of paper. \*\* I’m not a lawyer. Any lawyers out there want to take a look at that link and see if the ballots were legal? (is anyone elese having trouble getting this board to load?) ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/18 "2000-11-09T19:38:53Z")
Again from the [AP](http://wire.ap.org/?FRONTID=HOME&SITE=NA012&enter=Go13:27) at 13:27 > [@](#): > > DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - State Republican Party officials are exploring the possibility of requesting a voter recount following Al Gore’s razor-thin victory in Iowa. Is it me or is it beginning to get ugly? ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/19 "2000-11-09T19:40:22Z")
51 (of 67) counties reported. 792 ahead. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2000, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498/20 "2000-11-09T19:47:49Z")
Bush still leads by 787, with 53 out of 67 counties reporting, according to [washingtonpost.com](http://washingtonpost.com). So Iowa will do a recount? Interesting. Any news if Wisconsin (another razor-thin margin for Gore) will do a recount? If Bush takes Oregon (where he currently leads), Wisconsin, _and_ Iowa, he wins without any care as to how Florida turns out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fla-recount-updates-thread/40498.md?page=2)