# Flag at half mast used to mean something **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 15, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833 "2011-03-15T20:59:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/1 "2011-03-15T20:59:24Z")
When I was a child if I saw a flag at half mast my first question was, “which ex president died?” Now I just wonder who’s cat has the sniffles. I suspect it’s some tribute to the soldiers losing their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq, but when did this great honor get watered down so much? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/2 "2011-03-15T21:15:26Z")
It’s for the last American WWI veteran, who passed away recently. [http://halfstaff.org/](http://halfstaff.org/) And I take offense at your comparing soldiers dying in Afghanistan and Iraq to cat sniffles. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/3 "2011-03-15T21:25:39Z")
Thank you for that link, **Oakminster**! I often wonder why the flag is at half mast; now I will be able to find out. Also, you may not have meant it as offensively as it came out, but that was an unfortunate comparison, **Sitnam**. I think an apology might be in order… ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/4 "2011-03-15T22:35:32Z")
I once worked for a guy who’s best friend died; he lowered our flag to half-mast. Our facility was in an industrial park and the switchboard operator told me she was swamped with “who died” calls. I agree (not only because of that instance) that the symbolism has greatly diminished. In fact, I thought it was against “the law.” ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/5 "2011-03-15T22:41:37Z")
The flag code is not law. _Legally_, you can display your own flag any way you want. The president and governors can _order_ federal and state facilities, respectively, to fly half-staff, but other institutions, businesses and private persons, can follow these directions, or not, or choose their own occasions, as they like. A great many fire stations flew half-staff on [June 22, 2007](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_Sofa_Super_Store_fire), for example, and I found it entirely appropriate and moving. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/6 "2011-03-15T22:56:21Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > When I was a child if I saw a flag at half mast my first question was, “which ex president died?” Did you also tie an onion to your belt? ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/7 "2011-03-15T23:55:40Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > It’s for the last American WWI veteran, who passed away recently. > > [http://halfstaff.org/](http://halfstaff.org/) > > And I take offense at your comparing soldiers dying in Afghanistan and Iraq to cat sniffles. Oh, thank you! I’ve noticed flags at half-staff twice today and meant to google it when I got home and then forgot, so that is helpful. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/8 "2011-03-16T00:33:21Z")
When I see a flag at half staff and don’t know why, I assume that I’m ignorant of why, not that it’s too minor for me to know why. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/9 "2011-03-16T00:42:52Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > The flag code is not law. [Wrong](http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm). I had to explain this to Dio a few months ago. The flag code is most definitely law. You won’t go to jail for it, but will generally be considered an uncouth person for willful violations. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/10 "2011-03-16T00:47:46Z")
My flag is at half mast only if I’m drunk and can’t get it up. ---
**Author:** ![gardentraveler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gardentraveler/32/3576_2.png) [@gardentraveler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gardentraveler)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/11 "2011-03-16T00:58:33Z")
Thanks for the link, **Oakminster**. I was just about to go find out why flags were flying at half staff downtown today. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/12 "2011-03-16T01:50:33Z")
Nitpitck: Masts are on ships. On land, a flag flies from a staff, whether half or not. > [@Oakminster](#): > > [Wrong](http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm). I had to explain this to Dio a few months ago. The flag code is most definitely law. You won’t go to jail for it, but will generally be considered an uncouth person for willful violations. Does the law state that I will be declared an uncouth person? Somehow I doubt it. My personal opinion is that the flag code is a First Amendment violation. I suspect that if the Supreme Court ever got hold of the topic though they would either find that (1) A law with no mechanism for enforcement or consequences is not really much of anything, or (2) it’s like that ceremonial deism claptrap. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/13 "2011-03-16T02:13:15Z")
I periodically get annoyed at this, too. I call it the watering down of superlatives - like everyone getting a standing ovation no matter what they’ve done, or every woman who sings being called a diva. Then there’s the supermarket down the street that always flies the flag at 3/4 staff. Am I missing something here? Are there staffs that don’t go to the top? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/14 "2011-03-16T02:17:45Z")
I think the last WWI veteran in the U.S. deserves to be mourned in this way – I don’t feel there’s anything wrong with lowering the flag to half-staff. **acsenray** correct: the U.S. Supreme Court ruled it a [First Amendment violation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code) to do so. So yeah, it’s a law as in it’s on the books, but they can’t enforce it. Besides, if the [examples](http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/wallofshame.htm) on that page are “uncouth”, well, then so are 95% of the population\*. (As for tattered flags – what about ones that are of historical significance? My aunt and uncle have one that his father removed from a ship during WWII. It’s in very poor condition, but they still have it stored, because of the history behind it) \*The old guy in the flag clothes was just sad. The guy in the flag speedo was scary. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/15 "2011-03-16T02:23:31Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Nitpitck: Masts are on ships. On land, a flag flies from a staff, whether half or not. > > . Double nitpick. Flags are flown on the mast of ships when under way. In port they are flown off the staff. On land they can fly from staffs or yard arms. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/16 "2011-03-16T02:30:32Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The flag code is most definitely law. Okay–it is _defined_ in law, but it is not binding on civilians and carries no legal penalties, which puts it outside the common understanding of the term. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/17 "2011-03-16T02:34:27Z")
Triple nitpick: **Musicat** doesn’t drink. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/18 "2011-03-17T17:10:00Z")
I wish they had a Canadian version of that site, I never know why flags are flown at half staff (petty, possibly wrong, nit: masts are for ships!) around here unless it’s high profile - and I’m a vexillologist! The local legion halls (Canadian equivalent of VFWs) seem to have their flags at half-staff something like 80% of the time! My initial thought was to commemorate the death of a member (our veterans aren’t getting younger, you know!) but there can’t be _that_ many of them! > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I periodically get annoyed at this, too. I call it the watering down of superlatives - like everyone getting a standing ovation no matter what they’ve done, or every woman who sings being called a diva. I always thought diva = singer + bitch. So Mariah Carey and Celine Dion are divas, Dolly Parton, never a diva, always a “singer”. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/19 "2011-03-17T17:19:43Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > I wish they had a Canadian version of that site… [http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/meb-hm/index-eng.cfm](http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/meb-hm/index-eng.cfm) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833/20 "2011-03-17T17:23:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > [Wrong](http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm). I had to explain this to Dio a few months ago. The flag code is most definitely law. This is just sophistry. If it’s not binding, it’s not the law. The flag code is not enforcable law (outside the military or other federal jurisdictions), nor could it be. If it carried any penalties it would violate the First Amendment. > [@](#): > > You won’t go to jail for it, but will generally be considered an uncouth person for willful violations. I’ll be considered “uncouth” by who? Officious pedants who have nothing better to do than obsess about what other people do with their own cloth? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-mast-used-to-mean-something/574833.md?page=2)