# Flag at Half Staff **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 28, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189 "2005-06-28T13:42:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/1 "2005-06-28T13:42:38Z")
Alright, I’m officially confused. Back when I was in Boy Scouts, we were told that to fly the flag at “half staff” meant to fly it one flag’s height from the top of the flagpole. This seemed very peculiar, since the flag was just one flag height below the top, and this was far from half the staff in height. There were pictures that showed the flag that distance dowbn from the top, with a ghostly dotted-outline flag up at the top above it. This site seems to show such a “half staff” flag: [http://www1.va.gov/opa/feature/celebrate/halfstaf.htm](http://www1.va.gov/opa/feature/celebrate/halfstaf.htm) But nowadays I notice that “half staff” seems to literally nmean at half the height of the flagstaff, and that even in DC this is the case. Most webnsites use this definition, including Wikipedia. When did this change? I assumed that all the flags I saw literally at half the staff were the work of people who only knew of the position from the name, and who naively assumed that it meant half the staff. But the folks in Washington are sticklers for accuracy and consistency in ceremonial display, and I can’t imagine them getting it wrong. So I can only assume that somewhere along the line it changed, and I never got the memo. Does anyone know about this? (Then there’s the argument about “half staff” vs. “half mast”. The former is judged more correct, although apparently the latter is an older term. I’ve heard both used. Moreover I’ve heard them both used for both the “one flag from the top” position and the literal half-flagpole-height position.) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/2 "2005-06-28T14:15:19Z")
No idea on the position of the flag. I’ve never heard the one flag height below the top thing you were told in Boy Scouts. Perhaps someone has an old Boy Scout Handbook and can look this up? As for half-staff vs half-mast, I understood that flags flown aboard a ship or on a naval base are flown on masts, and that we fly flags on staffs on dry land. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/3 "2005-06-28T14:18:02Z")
Understood “half-staff” from context but I’ve never heard it - even the BBC say “half-mast” when referring to flagpoles which aren’t on boats. Language simplifies ? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/4 "2005-06-28T14:20:47Z")
Interesting. I’ve always understood "half staff " vs “half mast” to be US and Commonwealth English respectively, but to mean the exact same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/5 "2005-06-28T14:22:04Z")
Understood “half-staff” from context but I’ve never heard it - even the BBC say “half-mast” when referring to flags flying from flagpoles which aren’t on boats. Language simplifies ? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/6 "2005-06-28T14:24:42Z")
oops not sure how I double posted - sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/7 "2005-06-28T14:33:48Z")
I’ve looked in my old: \*\*Boy Scout Handbook \*\* 1964 Printing It says > [@](#): > > **Hoisting and Lowering Our Flag** > _To indicate mouring, display the flag at half-staff. Hoist it to the peak first, then lower it to half-staff. When you are ready to take it down, raise it to the peak before lowering it._ Tha is all I find right off and there is no picture/drawing to gain further perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/8 "2005-06-28T14:38:29Z")
Not only was I a Boy Scout back in the early 60s, but I was also responsible for raising and lowering the flag at our school. Half-mast always meant half-mast to me. I don’t remember any instructions for one flag length. Admittedly, my memory for such things is pretty bad but I think this would stand out since someone would have had to drill it into my head. Some Googling tells me that the flag code was adopted in 1923 and enacted into law in 1942. I can’t find any evidence of a change in the provisions for the time period in question. There is one possible explanation I can think of. When flying more than one flag on a staff, the U.S. flag goes on top and the other flag goes essentially a flag length below. But that’s just a stab in the dark. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/9 "2005-06-28T14:38:38Z")
Thinking back I seem to recall an instance where the length of the flag was greater than half of the staff and would therefore result in the flag touching the groung if flown at true half-staff. In such cases, the method you describe is considered an acceptable method. I have no cite for this, just IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/10 "2005-06-28T14:55:12Z")
I’ve searched the internet for anything about this, but can’t turn up anything. The current U.S. Code on displayinmg the flag unequivocally states that “half staff” is halfway between top and bottom : > [@](#): > > (1) the term “half-staff” means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff; [http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc\_sec\_04\_00000007----000-.html](http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000007----000-.html) But how long that has been in effect I dfon’t know. The top of the page gives a “release date” of last month (although I can’t imagine they made any substantial changes that recently) The only significant difference I found was a boating sdite that defined “half staff” as 3/4 of the way up. But that’s definitely a minority. Nevertheless, my memory is clear on this issue – I recall the illustrations that showed “half staff” as the height the flag would be at if there was another flag just above it. Not only that, but this is the way _we_ always displayed a “half staff” flag – definitely _not_ halfway up the pole. And it had always struck me as a bizarre way to define “half staff”. When I asked about this, no one has any answers. “Half staff” was just the term they’d always used. The only explanation I can see is that I must’ve wandered in from a parallel universe. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/11 "2005-06-28T14:59:58Z")
Look at the illustration on this site: [http://www.worldswindow.com/FlagPages/HalfStaff.html](http://www.worldswindow.com/FlagPages/HalfStaff.html) Even though elsewhere on the site it defines “half staff” as halfway between top and bottom, the illustration clearly depicts the flag being one flag height below the top position. And if you tell me that the flag in the illustration _is_ halfway between top and bottom, then I say that the illustration is clearly clipped and not showing the entire pole. Otherwise that’s a damned short pole with a huge flag on it. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/12 "2005-06-28T15:40:29Z")
Cal, I think you are reading way too much into a 4 color demonstration .GIF. I think it’s simply meant to illustrate that the flag is halfway up, not to give a realistic representation of a pole with a properly scaled flag. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/13 "2005-06-28T15:45:18Z")
I do recall the “one flag length from the top” as being the definition of “half-staff” in references when I was a boy (though I learned it as “half-mast” and I’m not from the UK). But in practice, most people flew it halfway up the staff. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/14 "2005-06-28T15:46:45Z")
I have usually thought that “leaving space for one flag above it” as half mast (in, perhaps, a more specifically U.K. sense), with the “actually halfway down the flagpole” version being a U.S.A. version, but a quick Google for evidence hasn’t helped me yet. ☹ Not very GQ of me - sorry. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/15 "2005-06-28T17:13:53Z")
[The page here](http://www.hampshireflag.co.uk/world-flags/allflags/flaghalf.html) claims that a typical pole on the mast of a ship used for flying a flag is about three flag-widths tall; therefore “half mast” on a nautical mast is the same as one flag width down. Moreover, it’s one flag width down because it makes room for the invisible “flag of death” flying above. However, the same site also says that this shouldn’t translate to taller land-based flag poles. ---
**Author:** ![aktep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@aktep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aktep)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/16 "2005-06-28T17:19:44Z")
my boy scout handbook, copyright 1988, says “…lower to half-staff, one half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/17 "2005-06-28T17:48:28Z")
I just checked gthe reference materials in the library here. 1.) **Encyclopedia Americana** from 1983, vol. 11, p. 350 unequivocally shows a picture of a flag one flag height from the top of the pole. The flagpole itself in the illustration is truncated right beneath the flag, so the “reading too much into the illustration” argument doesn’t hold – the illustrator would be showing the flag practically on the ground. Curiously, the _text_ citing the Flag Code agrees with what I have above – it says that “half staff” means a flag halfway between top and bottom positions on the pole, completely at odds with the illustration. 2.) **Webster’s Dictionary** from 1959. “Half Staff” directs you to “Half Mast”, where you find the following definition – “A point some distance, _not necessarily halfway down_, below the top of a mast or staff or peak of a gaff; as, a flag at _half mast_ (a token of mourning, or, sometimes, of distress).” The first set of italics is mine, the second as in the text. My questions in all this were: 1.) Why would someone define “half mast” or “half staff” as something that it clearly was not, and 2.) When did the accepted definition change? I suspect that the “one flag height from the top” definition was adopted for greater visibility of the flag itself, and was used in WWII and into the fifties. My scoyutmasters were of WWII vintage, and would’ve used it that way, and so were the books we used. Perhaps sometime around 1960 the definition changed, but the older usage continued until the up-and-coming generation, not familiar with the older use, and taking things logically, readily took to the newer definition. That would square my experience with what I’m seeing. I’ll have to see if anything I have at home corroborates this. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/18 "2005-06-28T18:42:21Z")
This site has quite a discussion on the topic, [http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/xf-half.html](http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/xf-half.html) from which I excerpt this: > [@](#): > > My understanding is that the flag is theoretically not flown at “half” mast, but one flag’s depth down from the masthead (in practice, it’s often more than that) to allow for the “invisible flag of death” to be flown at the top of the mast. The idea goes back to mediaeval times, I think. > > ## The same protocol applies in New Zealand for deaths of the head of state and other Royal Family members, the Governor General, the Prime Minister and other Ministers of the Crown. The days on which the flag is half masted (day of death, day of funeral, days in between) vary according to the status of the deceased. ANZAC Day (our Memorial Day equivalent) is another half-mast day (usually morning only). Of course, many official and private organizations also half mast the flag in respect of deaths of other people of special significance to them. Stuart Park > > ## In Denmark flying half-mast is the appropriate thing to do at funerals and on some holidays (Good Friday comes to mind). Ole Andersen, 13 December 1997 > > How Far Down the Flagpole is “Half Mast” > This is originally a naval term, referring to the pole or area on the mast of a ship where the flag is flown under way. This area is about three flag widths tall above the ship’s main structure to allow for the occasional two-flag display (the US flag always on top) and room for lowering the flag to half mast. Because the mast area and the pole at a ship’s stern are short, half mast is one flag width below the top. A flag pole is not a mast, so the flag should not be flown half-way up a tall pole. It is properly raised briskly to the block (top) and lowered slowly one flag width to the “half-mast” position. This makes it clearly not “two-blocked” and signals respect, but still keeps the flag high enough to prevent fouling and the sloppy appearance of a “half-pole” position, especially if the flag is very large. The flag, even at half mast, should be fully visible and flying freely and proudly in the wind. > Richard Olsen > [@](#): > > The rules on half-masting in New Zealand don’t specify one width below the top - that is apparently the minimum that a flag should be lowered in order to be half-masted. The full text of this section of the booklet, “The New Zealand Flag,” are as follows: > > The flag is half-masted by first raising it to the top of the mast and then immediately lowering it slowly to the half-mast position. The half-mast position will depend on the size of the flag and the length of the flagpole. The flag must be lowered to a position recognisably “half-mast” to avoid the appearance of a flag which has accidentally fallen away from the top of the flagpole. The flag should always be more than its own depth from the top of the flagpole. > In practice, lowering by one flag-width or slightly more seems to be the normal half-mast position. It is certainly rare to see a flag literally halfway up the mast. Even the diagram shown in the booklet shows a flag about 2/3 of the way up the mast. > James Dignan, 20 September 2003 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/19 "2005-06-28T18:42:57Z")
I don’t know for the american flag, but I noticed while searching around that in Canada : -The flag must indeed be flown at one flag’s height form the top -The mast is ideally 4 times the height of the flag. IOW, flying it at one flag’s height from the top would ideally result in the base of the flag being at half the mast’s height. So, maybe the two definitions aren’t contradictory, providing the same is true in the US. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189/20 "2005-06-28T18:50:09Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t know for the american flag, but I noticed while searching around that in Canada : > > -The flag must indeed be flown at one flag’s height form the top > > -The mast is ideally 4 times the height of the flag. IOW, flying it at one flag’s height from the top would ideally result in the base of the flag being at half the mast’s height. > > So, maybe the two definitions aren’t contradictory, providing the same is true in the US. But this site seems to insist that in Canada the flag _should_ be halfway down the mast: [http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/occasion\_e.cfm](http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/occasion_e.cfm) It’s a complicated mess. Current US and Canadian codes seem to indicate 1/2 mast height for the flag location, but older practices seem to allow for a very different location. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-at-half-staff/310189.md?page=2)