# Flag burning... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 27, 1999, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528 "1999-05-27T19:39:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 1999, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/1 "1999-05-27T19:39:00Z")
This should ruffle some feathers. Any one out there support this (fascist) amendment being debated? * * * You want to go one on one with The Great One? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 1999, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/2 "1999-05-27T19:43:00Z")
I think it’s the most offencive and therefore the best (to get noticed). It’s also used very much to get people worked up into a kind of mass histeria which is the tool of dictators… So therefore I vote NO!! * * * Thor ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 1999, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/3 "1999-05-27T19:49:00Z")
I don’t. I think trading away a chunk of our freedom of speech simply to protect the sensabilities of some aging veterans is a mistake. I think burning the flag is an offensive and rather juvinile form of protest, but like prayer (This can’s already been opened) it does nobody any physical harm. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 1999, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/4 "1999-05-27T20:20:00Z")
I care deeply about what the flag represents, but for cryin’ out loud, it’s a piece of cloth, people. I’m a little too strong to be moved by the incineration of a colored rag. It tickles me to see protesters in foreign countries burning our flag, as long as they bought it from us. We might even want to think about exporting them pre-soaked in kerosene for a slightly higher price. Why isn’t burning somebody in effigy more of an issue? IMHO, it’s just symbolic expression either way. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 1999, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/5 "1999-05-27T20:56:00Z")
The flag is a perfect example of confusing the idea with the symbol. Soldiers say they fought for the flag. No, you didn’t; you fought for what the flag stands for. If you’re foolish enough to fight and die for an object, then you’re a tool. If there were no flags, does that mean that there would be no countries? If I had a flag, would that make me a country? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 1999, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/6 "1999-05-27T22:57:00Z")
The push for this amendment seems like a colossal waste of time and money to me. How often does it happen (burning a flag) that we need an amendment to put a stop to it? BTW, when I was a kid, they taught us that if the flag touched the ground, it was therefore desecrated and must be destroyed! And the only _proper_ way to dispose of the flag was to burn it. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 1999, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/7 "1999-05-27T23:29:00Z")
What flag, what country? The Ireland flag? I think you can burn that in the US. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 1999, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/8 "1999-05-27T23:35:00Z")
If you go anywhere in the world, no matter how tyrranous the government, no one is going to stop you from waving a flag in **SUPPORT** of the status quo. The fact that people who hate and despise what this country stands are allowed to burn the Stars and Stripes in protest is what makes this country great. * * * “Interested in fashion, Harmonica?” “There were three dusters like these waiting for a train. Inside the dusters were three men. Inside the men were three bullets…” –_ **Once Upon A Time In The West** _ ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 1999, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/9 "1999-05-27T23:40:00Z")
Picture some guy standing there all alone burning a flag, and nobody paying him any mind. Of all the reasons to go messin’ with the Constitution, this one ain’t. Peace, mangeorge * * * “If you tell the truth you don’t have to remember anything” Mark Twain 1894 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 1999, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/10 "1999-05-27T23:56:00Z")
Actually, the proposed amendment is against desecration of the flag. 1. define desecration. 2. define flag. * * * “When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.” Hunter Thompson ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/11 "1999-05-28T00:00:00Z")
When taking down the flag at school as a kid, we were told if the flag touched the ground it would have to be burned. The flag had to be folded in a certain way too, or it was ruined. The sun could not set on a raised flag. A flag could not be rained on. A flag that was wore out had to be burned, no other disposal was acceptable. I think this was redicules 50’s 60’s McCarthism paranoia. Now places leave flags up 24 hours a day reguardless of the weather, and many are ripped and faded. I’ll bet when most places get rid of these flags it’s without a burning and ceramony. One extreme to the other. I personally wouldn’t burn a flag in demonstration, but find passing a law against it another manical on our freedoms. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/12 "1999-05-28T14:11:00Z")
When I first heard that it’s alright to burn a flag as long as it’s in protest of something, I was very upset. So I protested that right by burning some flags. * * * I don’t know who first said “everyone’s a critic,” but I think it’s a really stupid saying. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/13 "1999-05-28T14:20:00Z")
The rules on flag maintenance must have lightened up in past decades. I was told by a reliable source (a Marine) that flags could be cleaned if dirty. It’s only when they become stained or torn beyond repair that they should be destroyed. The correct disposal is burning, but during a “dignified” ceremony. If you need to get rid of an old US flag, the local chapter of the VFW will take it off your hands. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/14 "1999-05-28T15:56:00Z")
I don’t think the strict rules regarding handling and displaying the flag are a product of McCarthyism. I think they are far older than that (from the inception of the country, in fact) and the correlation that people were supposed to draw is that the degree of respect with which you treat the flag indicates the degree of respect you accord to the country. Since the country is your own (our own), then you would treat the symbol of the country (the flag) with the maximum amount of deference and respect – never letting it touch the ground, etc. And if you disrespect the flag, you are symbolically disrespecting the country. The irony of the proposed amendment is, of course, that this is precisely the country a person should feel most free to disagree with, or even disrespect. So those who support this amendment are in fact attacking one on the central tenets of freedom which makes this country what it is. As you probably can tell, I think the proposed amendment is an amazingly bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/15 "1999-05-28T18:03:00Z")
Here’s a bit of wordplay: If we love our country, we must love the thing it’s made of: dirt. So why would touching the flag to the sacred dirt of our country be a bad thing? I would think we would want to rub the flag into the ground every chance we got. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/16 "1999-05-28T21:39:00Z")
I love my country. I love the strengths that make it great. I love the freedoms that we enjoy. I love our liberties that are unique in all the world. And as the symbol of all the greatness that is America, I also love our flag. That’s why I burn one every Fourth of July. On the anniversary of our independence, on a day that marked an irrevocable break with despotism, I can think of no greater way to show my love for this country – and all the freedoms it bestows and defends– than by burning its very symbol. Think about it: in almost no other country in the world could you do such a thing without being tossed in jail. Our liberty to burn the very symbol of America is something that makes our country so special to me, and is one reason I love it so much. The day that burning a flag is constitutionally prohibited is the day that America decides it will pay only lip service to a noble idea. It is the day that America decides true freedom is a passing, frivolous thing, not worthy of vigorous support and defense. The day that America prohibits the burning of its flag is the day that will mark the beginning of a slow, insidious erosion of the freedoms I hold so dear. Forgive me for waxing poetic, but you can tell I feel strongly about this. ## \ \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*––––––––––––––––––– \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*––––––––––––––––––– \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*––––––––––––––––––– \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*––––––––––––––––––– ––––––––––––––––––––––––––– ––––––––––––––––––––––––––– ––––––––––––––––––––––––––– \ ~ Complacency is far more dangerous than outrage ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/17 "1999-05-28T21:40:00Z")
I hate ASCII art. Sorry my flag got screwed up. * * * ~ Complacency is far more dangerous than outrage ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/18 "1999-05-28T21:51:00Z")
STARK says: > [@](#): > > I can think of no greater way to show my love for this country – and all the freedoms it bestows and defends– than by burning its very symbol. Well, whatever floats your boat, I guess. But I don’t see how burning the symbol of something indicates respect for the thing symbolized. I mean, as a general rule, just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you SHOULD. If you feel you are showing great respect for the U.S. by burning its flag, then have at it. Personally, I can think of more constructive ways to demonstrate my patriotism and my commitment to the principles of freedom, but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/19 "1999-05-28T21:53:00Z")
## Ahem. Apology in advance. _DON’T FUCK WITH THE CONSTITUTION_, you clowns, especially for something this trivial. Patriotism is the first refuge of a scoundrel. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528/20 "1999-05-28T22:01:00Z")
Whoops! The clowns I meant were the members of Congress. (Sorry I waxed profane, I don’t have the literary talents of a STARK). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-burning/528.md?page=2)