# Flag/pledge/anthem whiners **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 30, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475 "2016-08-30T12:57:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/41 "2016-08-30T16:56:09Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’ll take your word for it. My point stands. Bob’s point is idiotic. Kaepernick is making it every one’s business. His protest wouldn’t be very effective otherwise. If he wanted to be left alone with his choice he would have said so. If he was asked about it and explained it like that, then the outrage is idiotic. I would have been fine if he was asked about it and he said none of your business. You can agree or disagree with his rationale, but he has every right to do what he does. He has the right to stand, the Gestapo-wannabees have the right to get all pissy about it, in my opinion he’s on firmer ground. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/42 "2016-08-30T17:00:25Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > when are you progressives gonna accept that every country and societies minorities face discrimination? Its a lot worse in many countries outside America. > > That aside, fact is America gave ingrate Kaepernick a chance to be a sports star. How about them black footballers in Europe? The same Europe which colonized a continent, the same Europe where a non-white can’t go on the field without tons of racist chants being yelled? The same Europe where there are NGOs dedicated to fighting racism in sport, whereas in America, white America accepts that blacks dominate football and basketball, two of America’s most popular sports, do pretty damn well in baseball, also one of America’s popular sports, and made much bigger strides in traditionally “white sports” like gymnastics and swimming? How is that relevant? I’m not trying to be snarkily dismissive; I’m saying I truly don’t get how it’s relevant. Like, if Kaepernick were standing for the anthems of _those_ countries, then, uh, sure, I guess – but it’s entirely possible that, if he were in Europe, he’d sit out anthems over there; and, being here, he (a) is only ever asked to stand for the Star-Spangled Banner, and he (b) only ever refuses when asked. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/43 "2016-08-30T17:07:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > When will the absurd habit of labeling anyone who happens to hold a different belief an asshole end? I’m entitled to my opinion just as much as you’re entitled to my opinion. 😃 You protest your way, I’ll protest my way. (And a few commas couldn’t hurt.) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/44 "2016-08-30T17:10:49Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Fucking right wingers can’t fucking stop their fucking whining. They fucking love freedom so fucking much, except for the freedom to not act the way they do. Last fucking time I fucking checked, you had the fucking freedom to stand or not fucking stand as you saw fit. It’s nobody else’s fucking business. Know what, assholes? Some people don’t want to be your fucking puppets, they want to live their own fucking lives the way they want to. They may not look like you, they may not pray like you, they may not get a boner every time they see the flag, they may not feel like standing or putting their hands on their hearts. It’s called freedom, and if right wingers loved freedom as much as they fucking pretend, they’d shut the fuck up about it. I thought you were in favor of non-violent protest? People are protesting whats-his-names protest. What is more American than that? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/45 "2016-08-30T17:11:18Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > How is that relevant? You’ve not met our resident Minister of American Propaganda? **DM00** brooks no dissent of, [America! Fuck YEAH!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1RbBHMeX80) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/46 "2016-08-30T17:13:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If history teaches (some of) us anything, it’s that people will stand and salute pretty much any goddamn fool thing you can convince them to salute. > > So the more important question is, do people have the freedom not to salute? Do people still have the freedom to discuss such a non-salute, or must they be shouted down in the name of freedom? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/47 "2016-08-30T17:13:28Z")
Again, if his goal was to bring more awareness to BLM, then he failed. Because that’s not what everyone is talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/48 "2016-08-30T17:15:15Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I thought you were in favor of non-violent protest? People are protesting whats-his-names protest. What is more American than that? And we can protest the people protesting the protest. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/49 "2016-08-30T17:16:44Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Again, if his goal was to bring more awareness to BLM, then he failed. Because that’s not what everyone is talking about. They are to some extent. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/50 "2016-08-30T17:18:55Z")
No, his point was to bring awareness of precisely the things he spoke about, and to take it public. You have every right to disagree. Doesn’t mean he’s wrong, or that he was wrong to do what he did. I really have no sympathy for whiny assed bitches who have to start waving the flag, threatening him and/or telling him to leave the country. Right wing whiny assed bitches have not left the country while Obama has been President, but the same shit applies. If you don’t like living in an America with a BLACK DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT, then GET THE FUCK OUT. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/51 "2016-08-30T17:19:54Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I thought you were in favor of non-violent protest? People are protesting whats-his-names protest. What is more American than that? I have no problem with people discussing it, I just think that those who are getting all pissy about it don’t have a good grasp of what freedom is all about. They’ll say “I really need to stockpile military weapons in case we have to overthrow a tyrannical government!” and then in the next breath say “OMG! Someone is disrespecting the country! WAAAAAAHHHHHH!” Okay, YOU get to decide when to have a revolution but someone else has no right to not stand for a song. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/52 "2016-08-30T17:25:12Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > Since you don’t know who Kaepernick is, you wouldn’t realize that he didn’t stand for the anthem at _any_ of the three preseason games. Nobody noticed during the first two games, though, because he wasn’t in uniform until this most recent one. > > It’s not Kaepernick who is dragging the NFL into a protest or calling attention to himself. NOBODY NOTICED until the media pointed him out (with a highlighted picture!) during this most recent game. Once the “patriotic” fans got riled up with the media egging things on, _then_ he issued a public statement. > > You can’t really say Kaepernick is doing this for personal attention or any advancement of any kind - as he freely admits, this could cost him job and endorsement prospects, and he’s okay with that. (underline added) What’s-his-name wasn’t in uniform. Nobody noticed. Nobody cared. Then he put on his NFL team uniform and repeated his stooopidity as a representative of NFL, his team, and the fans. _HEY! I’M STILL OVER HERE AND NOBODY IS NOTICING ME! MAYBE IF I DRAG OTHERS INTO MY PERSONAL PROTEST - SOMEONE WILL NOTICE ME THIS TIME!_ ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/53 "2016-08-30T17:30:45Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (underline added) > > What’s-his-name wasn’t in uniform. Nobody noticed. Nobody cared. Then he put on his NFL team uniform and repeated his stooopidity as a representative of NFL, his team, and the fans. _HEY! I’M STILL OVER HERE AND NOBODY IS NOTICING ME! MAYBE IF I DRAG OTHERS INTO MY PERSONAL PROTEST - SOMEONE WILL NOTICE ME THIS TIME!_ It’s not really a personal protest. Many people are protesting police violence these days. He’s just joining his voice to an existing movement. But you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/54 "2016-08-30T17:32:16Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I assume you also oppose all of the flag-waving displays of support for the military at football games, then? [As long as the check clears, it seems to be acceptable](http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25181085/nfl-teams-received-54-million-from-defense-department-in-last-4-years). What was that about keeping politics out of sports? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/55 "2016-08-30T17:33:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I have no problem with people discussing it, I just think that those who are getting all pissy about it don’t have a good grasp of what freedom is all about. They’ll say “I really need to stockpile military weapons in case we have to overthrow a tyrannical government!” and then in the next breath say “OMG! Someone is disrespecting the country! WAAAAAAHHHHHH!” Okay, YOU get to decide when to have a revolution but someone else has no right to not stand for a song. Ya, you kinda do have a problem, a “fucking” problem actually, with people discussing this incident/protest. People get “pissy” about many things. Some people suggest that those who disagree with them should leave the country. Some people try to redirect a conversation away from “the incident” and discuss firearm ownership instead. It takes all types to have a robust conversation. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/56 "2016-08-30T17:37:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (underline added) > > What’s-his-name wasn’t in uniform. Nobody noticed. Nobody cared. Then he put on his NFL team uniform and repeated his stooopidity as a representative of NFL, his team, and the fans. _HEY! I’M STILL OVER HERE AND NOBODY IS NOTICING ME! MAYBE IF I DRAG OTHERS INTO MY PERSONAL PROTEST - SOMEONE WILL NOTICE ME THIS TIME!_ Only a monumental idiot would repeat the same thing over and over in a desperate attempt to make a point, eh **doorky**? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/57 "2016-08-30T17:39:07Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It’s not really a personal protest. (post shortened) If Colin Kaepernick wasn’t personally involved in his own protest, who was? It looked like him. It sounded like him. He admits it was him. Who do you believe is responsible for what’s-his-names choice to protest? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/58 "2016-08-30T17:43:12Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Only a monumental idiot would repeat the same thing over and over in a desperate attempt to make a point, eh **doorky**? Hahahaha. You’re a hoot. **Uncle Jocko** under cut his own argument. Nobody knew this asshole was even protesting until he put on his NFL uniform. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/59 "2016-08-30T17:44:34Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Ya, you kinda do have a problem, a “fucking” problem actually, with people discussing this incident/protest. > > People get “pissy” about many things. Some people suggest that those who disagree with them should leave the country. Some people try to redirect a conversation away from “the incident” and discuss firearm ownership instead. It takes all types to have a robust conversation. I have low tolerance for fools and hypocrites, and those who are so bent out of shape over someone standing or not standing for a song are almost certainly in one of these categories. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/60 "2016-08-30T17:45:07Z")
I think everyone should refuse to stand until that awful, jingoistic, militaristic shit-show of an anthem is replaced by something more suitable. Something not written by a slave-owning racist like Francis Scott Key. In fact, let’s all sing the third verse: _And where is that band who so vauntingly swore, That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion A home and a Country should leave us no more? Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution. No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave, And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475.md?page=4)