# Flag/pledge/anthem whiners **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 30, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475 "2016-08-30T12:57:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/81 "2016-08-30T19:07:55Z")
Just remember, to Republicans, this is a Magic World. You have to love God (magic sky fairy), the flag (symbolism, huge in magic) and say just the right words (again, magic). If you don’t, then you’re refusing to create the magical reality they insist on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/82 "2016-08-30T19:07:59Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The only way to sit for the anthems in Europe, as a player, is to sit cross legged on the grass. Still, I’m just wondering how it’s worth mentioning: Kaepernick is apparently sitting out the anthem here for one reason; and, were he there, then for all I know he’d sit out the anthem of some other country (a) cross-legged on the grass, and (b) for maybe seven different reasons. If so, then why did the other guy even _mention_ it? If Kaepernick is currently protesting one thing, then who cares whether he’d hypothetically protest a greater number of things if asked to stand for some other anthem? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/83 "2016-08-30T19:08:13Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I have no problem with people discussing it, I just think that those who are getting all pissy about it don’t have a good grasp of what freedom is all about. They’ll say “I really need to stockpile military weapons in case we have to overthrow a tyrannical government!” and then in the next breath say “OMG! Someone is disrespecting the country! WAAAAAAHHHHHH!” Okay, YOU get to decide when to have a revolution but someone else has no right to not stand for a song. In this particular instance, my problem is with the 49ers and the NFL more than the ungrateful ignorant douchebag. They really should have a policy that while you are in the TEAM uniform you act as part of the TEAM. If after the game you want to protest, burn the flag, whatever, knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/84 "2016-08-30T19:08:20Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yes, I read that crock of bullshit excuse. Thanks for asking. > > Here’s the thing, waving the American flag should always be allowed in this country. If you don’t like it, too fucking bad, move to a country that where flying some other banner is the norm. > > That said, while I’m sure that it’s possible to use the flag in an offensive manner, _anything_ can be used in an offensive maker. But it really depends on someone first having a problem with the flag. And like I said, if you’re in the U.S., too fucking bad. No one is keeping anyone here at gunpoint. So racism _is_ a Republican value. Thanks for confirming. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/85 "2016-08-30T19:08:58Z")
To **maggy** : I keep forgetting that you really **are** that large an idiot. Then you crawl out from under your rock and remind everybody that you have no opinions worth noting on anything. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/86 "2016-08-30T19:09:02Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Just remember, to Republicans, this is a Magic World. You have to love God (magic sky fairy), the flag (symbolism, huge in magic) and say just the right words (again, magic). > > If you don’t, then you’re refusing to create the magical reality they insist on. There’s a guy who’s been going around, saying we should make America great again. What, it’s not good enough for him as it is? Republicans, tell him what’s what! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/87 "2016-08-30T19:09:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Not long ago, flag-waving and support for the military were not partisan political issues. This is what the progressive left has wrought. Yesterday I read about flags being disallowed at a high school football game. :roll eyes: > > A quote that I heard came from Michael savage and assumed to be hyperbolic doesn’t seem to be much of an exaggeration anymore: “Liberalism is a mental disease.” Another way to look at it is that regressive right views are an expression of fear due to the inability of some to understand, accept and adapt to an ever changing world. The tighter they try to hold onto things to keep them from changing, the faster they slip though their fingers. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/88 "2016-08-30T19:11:04Z")
[ul] [/ul] > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That’s hilarious. “Love the flag or get the fuck out.” No. That’s not what I said and not my position. I respect someone’s right to not stand or even burn the flag. My position is that you shouldn’t have a problem with others waving the country’s flag. If you do, you’re a douchebag and you should find a place more to you’re liking. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/89 "2016-08-30T19:11:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Another way to look at it is that regressive right views are an expression of fear due to the inability of some to understand, accept and adapt to an ever changing world. The tighter they try to hold onto things to keep them from changing, the faster they slip though their fingers. Careful, they’ll start building a Deathstar. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/90 "2016-08-30T19:12:41Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Not long ago, flag-waving and support for the military were not partisan political issues. This is what the progressive left has wrought. Yesterday I read about flags being disallowed at a high school football game. :roll eyes: > > A quote that I heard came from Michael savage and assumed to be hyperbolic doesn’t seem to be much of an exaggeration anymore: “Liberalism is a mental disease.” I’m not sure what vague, idyllic time you’re referring to, but prior to America’s involvement in WWI, flag-waving patriotism was frowned upon and avoided. Then we got into the war, and the country went completely insane. People were jailed and assaulted for not standing and singing the American anthem. If you were thought to just be mouthing the words, you could be arrested. If you didn’t spout patriotic phrases of the day, you would be reported by your neighbors and family as suspicious and investigated for treason. Song lyrics were changed to reflect more patriotic themes. The progressive left bogie man is a bullshit meme. I recommend reading _The Last of the Doughboys: The Forgotten Generation and Their Forgotten World War_, by Richard Rubin. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/91 "2016-08-30T19:14:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > So racism _is_ a Republican value. Thanks for confirming. Ha. Okay, I’ll bite…where does racism come into what I wrote? _(This oughta be good…)_ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/92 "2016-08-30T19:14:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > In this particular instance, my problem is with the 49ers and the NFL more than the ungrateful ignorant douchebag. They really should have a policy that while you are in the TEAM uniform you act as part of the TEAM. If after the game you want to protest, burn the flag, whatever, knock yourself out. Not entirely unreasonable but I disagree. I don’t think the team has the right to demand that its members suspend their freedom of speech in order to earn a paycheck. I wouldn’t be okay if they said “OK guys, Trump is going to appear on the field at halftime and you’re to jump up and down and act excited”. No, they’d be coercing others into expressing a particular political belief, just as forcing someone to stand for a song is coercion of another particular political belief. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/93 "2016-08-30T19:15:59Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Careful, they’ll start building a Deathstar. Oh, yeah? Who’s going to build it if they deport all the illegal immigrants? And I suppose they’ll make Mexico pay for it too. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/94 "2016-08-30T19:17:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Another way to look at it is that regressive right views are an expression of fear due to the inability of some to understand, accept and adapt to an ever changing world. The tighter they try to hold onto things to keep them from changing, the faster they slip though their fingers. Or maybe they think moving to a world that is more globalist is not as good a way you live that one that is more nationalistic. As this pertains to the flag and the nation, one side wants open borders, the other a wall. I’m firmly on the side of the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/95 "2016-08-30T19:20:16Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > It’s amazing to me the level of butthurt that happens whenever someone doesn’t stand during the national anthem, doesn’t feel the need to put their hand over their heart during the pledge, or uses the flag as a form of protest. Its amazing to me the amount of butthurt that happens when people criticize someone for not standing during the nation anthem in order to make a political statement. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/96 "2016-08-30T19:20:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Or maybe they think moving to a world that is more globalist is not as good a way you live that one that is more nationalistic. As this pertains to the flag and the nation, one side wants open borders, the other a wall. I’m firmly on the side of the wall. A simple solution for the simple minded. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/97 "2016-08-30T19:21:00Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > To **maggy** : I keep forgetting that you really **are** that large an idiot. Then you crawl out from under your rock and remind everybody that you have no opinions worth noting on anything. Oh well, there goes my good night’s sleep. While you’re at it, mind sharing your views on hexagonal vs octagonal pencils, as I have a bit more interest in your position on that subject. Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/98 "2016-08-30T19:21:17Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I think everyone should refuse to stand until that awful, jingoistic, militaristic shit-show of an anthem is replaced by something more suitable. Something not written by a slave-owning racist like Francis Scott Key. In fact, let’s all sing the third verse: > > _And where is that band who so vauntingly swore, > That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion > A home and a Country should leave us no more? > Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution. > No refuge could save the hireling and slave > From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave, > And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave > O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave._ Oh no, people in the past lived accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/99 "2016-08-30T19:21:35Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yes, I read that crock of bullshit excuse. Thanks for asking. > > **Here’s the thing, waving the American flag should always be allowed in this country.** If you don’t like it, too fucking bad, move to a country that where flying some other banner is the norm. > > That said, while I’m sure that it’s possible to use the flag in an offensive manner, _anything_ can be used in an offensive maker. But it really depends on someone first having a problem with the flag. **And like I said, if you’re in the U.S., too fucking bad. No one is keeping anyone here at gunpoint.** > [@magellan01](#): > > Ha. Okay, I’ll bite…where does racism come into what I wrote? > > _(This oughta be good…)_ It was being used to taunt Hispanic students of another school, implying they’re all illegal. That’s not just “waving the flag”. Except for apologists like you. You obviously agree the Hispanic students are somehow not citizens by your claim they should get out. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/100 "2016-08-30T19:22:39Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > It’s not so much that Colin Kaepernick is getting flack for not standing up for the flag. It’s just not so appropriate to bring a political issue into a sports environment. People watch to escape the politics. The National Anthem is just a few minutes of pretending that beyond the rivalries, all who participate stand united for a bigger cause. Kaepernick is already at risk of getting cut from the roster, and this grandstanding (grandsitting in this case) doesn’t exactly promote his virtues. He should have expressed his dismay independently of the NFL. Now he’ll be lucky to play backup QB for the summer leagues. Baaaad move on his part. He was already on his way out. This might extend his career a season or so with this stunt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475.md?page=6)