# Flag/pledge/anthem whiners **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 30, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475 "2016-08-30T12:57:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/121 "2016-08-30T20:15:43Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Well, Trump himself has already admitted to the one weakness of the proposed structure. So the best of today’s technology seems to be no match for, “maybe a rope”. > > Look. Give it up. Amusing as it would be to see a monument built to Trump’s (and company’s) stupidity, the cost of a few miles of a wall pays for a drone. If he (and you) didn’t have the mental capacity of a mollusk, we’d be discussing the merits of border patrols with actual “best of today’s technology”, not cement. Sorry, my sub-mollusk friend, but walls work as a deterrent. Why else do you think they are built every day? And we are talking here about a wall + technology. What do you have against common sense and science? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/122 "2016-08-30T20:25:47Z")
Where I was stationed, they’d play bugle calls over the basewide PA system when appropriate. There was a flagpole near the middle of the base. Come 1700, they’d play “Retreat” and then they’d play “To The Colors”. When they started playing “To The Colors”, everyone in uniform and outdoors was supposed to face the flagpole, come to attention, and hold a salute until the bugle call was over. So, when they played “Retreat”, you did NOT want to be standing in front of a door because you’d get knocked over and run down by people (both officer and enlisted) in uniform rushing indoors so they wouldn’t have to stand outside to “Present Arms”. Yes, I can see the argument that when you’re wearing a uniform, you represent the team/company/school/whatever and you should represent it in a good light. On the other hand, not standing up or not holding one’s hand over their heart strikes me as fairly peaceful ways of making a protest. It’s not preventing anyone else from doing what they want to do. Yeah, if I can, I’ll stop what I’m doing and come to attention and place my hand over my heart if I see a flag draped casket going by. Not to render Honor to a gaudily colored piece of cloth, but to Honor the person whose remains are in the casket. As for “The Star Spangled Banner”? I think it’s too difficult to sing. And have you ever tried to diagram the lyrics? Heck, try to punctuate it. I think “America The Beautiful” would be a much better National Anthem. [Keb Mo](https://youtu.be/-qrCJjmODCo) [Ray Charles](https://youtu.be/GX7BcixX-4U) ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/123 "2016-08-30T20:27:07Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Oh no, people in the past lived accordingly. You’re probably too stupid to realize that even back then those hopeless primitives knew that slavery was evil. It’s a wonder you can type and breathe at the same time. For the butthurt in general, [this](http://imgur.com/a/F8CYn) will help ease your pain. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/124 "2016-08-30T20:37:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Sorry, my sub-mollusk friend, but walls work as a deterrent. Why else do you think they are built every day? And we are talking here about a wall + technology. What do you have against common sense and science? 🙂 How’s he going to build a wall across private property, which most of the border is? Where’s the common sense in that? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/125 "2016-08-30T20:38:54Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Yes, I can see the argument that when you’re wearing a uniform, you represent the team/company/school/whatever and you should represent it in a good light. On the other hand, not standing up or not holding one’s hand over their heart strikes me as fairly peaceful ways of making a protest. It’s not preventing anyone else from doing what they want to do. As someone pointed out, apparently a Jehovah’s Witness would likewise refrain from saluting the flag or pledging allegiance to it – not to peacefully protest this or that action by the government, but simply because it’s against their religion. Which means it goes even a step further than what you’re saying: what Kaepernick is doing is so blandly unobjectionable that, until he answered someone who asked why he wasn’t putting his hand over his heart, it honestly could’ve been mistaken for just being devout. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/126 "2016-08-30T20:42:23Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I thought America was supposed to be exceptional. exceptional doesn’t mean defying human nature. Also, we freed the world from fascism and communism; if that’s not exceptional enough for some, some have no moral compass. Also, to his apologists; how come the rest of the NFL, many of whom are also black, aka “people of color,” don’t pull the unpatriotic and dishonourable shit this guy pulled? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/127 "2016-08-30T20:46:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Sorry, my sub-mollusk friend, Ah, the famous, “I know you are but what am I?” defense. Clever dick, you are. > [@magellan01](#): > > but walls work as a deterrent. Why else do you think they are built every day? To hold up the roof, windows, doors… All handy things when you’re not living under a rock. > [@magellan01](#): > > And we are talking here about a wall + technology. What do you have against common sense and science? 🙂 Nothing. What do you know of common sense and science? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/128 "2016-08-30T20:46:49Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > exceptional doesn’t mean defying human nature. Also, we freed the world from fascism and communism; if that’s not exceptional enough for some, some have no moral compass. I salute the flag. I don’t know about the moral compass of those who don’t want to salute the flag, but I’m sure as hell not a fan of the moral compass of those who want to force this guy to salute the flag. > [@](#): > > Also, to his apologists; how come the rest of the NFL, many of whom are also black, aka “people of color,” don’t pull the unpatriotic and dishonourable shit this guy pulled? Will you be happier if more of them start following his example? Because more of them might start following his example. As for the rest, it’s up to each of them to decide, and they can give their reasons if they’re so inclined. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/129 "2016-08-30T20:48:51Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Also, to his apologists; how come the rest of the NFL, many of whom are also black, aka “people of color,” don’t pull the unpatriotic and dishonourable shit this guy pulled? Just because you think they all look alike doesn’t mean they all think alike. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/130 "2016-08-30T20:50:16Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Also, we freed the world from fascism and communism; It not going to become any more true no matter how often you say it. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > … some have no moral compass. Also, find your own words. Stop using the ones I gave you. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Also, to his apologists; how come the rest of the NFL, many of whom are also black, aka “people of color,” don’t pull the unpatriotic and dishonourable shit this guy pulled? Because, regardless of how they look to you, all black people are not the same. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/131 "2016-08-30T20:50:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Just because you think they all look alike doesn’t mean they all think alike. Googling around a bit, though, it looks like a linebacker for the Eagles has announced that he’s going to do likewise. [EDITED TO ADD: looks like he later announced that he’d changed his mind.] ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/132 "2016-08-30T20:54:36Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Googling around a bit, though, it looks like a linebacker for the Eagles has announced that he’s going to do likewise. > > [EDITED TO ADD: looks like he later announced that he’d changed his mind.] Nevertheless, two football players does not a majority make. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/133 "2016-08-30T20:57:45Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Nevertheless, two football players does not a majority make. But if THREE people do it! Can you imagine, three people walkin’ in, singin’ a bar of “Alice’s Restaurant”, and walkin’ out? They may think it’s an ORGANIZATION! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/134 "2016-08-30T21:06:09Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Also, to his apologists; how come the rest of the NFL, many of whom are also black, aka “people of color,” don’t pull the unpatriotic and dishonourable shit this guy pulled? Exercising constitutional rights is NOT “unpatriotic” and it certainly is not “dishonourable”. Your behavior certainly is. Get a grip. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/135 "2016-08-30T21:21:22Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And yet you didn’t answer the question you chose to quote. [cousin Vinny] You were serious about that? [/cousin Vinny] To quote another character from the same film. “It’s a bullshit question”. In other words, you can’t be ‘shouted down’ on a message board. It’s not like your posts disappear if enough people disagree with you. In any event, you seem to be claiming that you are being shouted down. Fair enough. Who specifically, is preventing you from expressing your views? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/136 "2016-08-30T21:22:02Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So is it that waving the American flag that is problematic, or one team taunting other? > > Either way, get thee to a safe place apace! Adults and spectators bullying high school kids unable to respond in any meaningful way is shitty behavior and poor sportsmanship, period. Insulting the US flag by using it in such a fashion is, IMO, completely unpatriotic. Repeated ad hominem attacks about safe spaces show exactly how little you actually have to stand on. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/137 "2016-08-30T21:35:11Z")
I just read on FB someone said “Most people saying Colin Kaeperncik is unpatriotic for criticizing America are wearing red ball caps saying America isn’t great.” ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/138 "2016-08-30T21:39:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > To **maggy** : I keep forgetting that you really **are** that large an idiot. Then you crawl out from under your rock and remind everybody that you have no opinions worth noting on anything. I have him on ignore, so it’s easy for me to remain blissfully unaware. Until someone just has to wrestle that pig and quote him in the process. Oh, and… 'Merica! Fuck, yeah! PS. I also really want a “Proud SJW” hat. Anyone Cafe Press? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/139 "2016-08-30T22:03:44Z")
I’m proud of the NFL and of his team management: either of these could have punished him – or even fired him – but, instead, they’re respecting his right to protest. That’s good and also wise. The country and the world have come a long way since the 1960s. There’s still a lot that needs to be done, and that’s why he’s protesting. He has a completely valid point. Justice is racially skewed in this country, and that’s insanely offensive. We should have been past all this racism crap in the 1960s and 1970s. But bigotry is attractive to too many people. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475/140 "2016-08-30T22:18:04Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’m proud of the NFL and of his team management: either of these could have punished him – or even fired him – but, instead, they’re respecting his right to protest. That’s good and also wise. The country and the world have come a long way since the 1960s. > > There’s still a lot that needs to be done, and that’s why he’s protesting. He has a completely valid point. Justice is racially skewed in this country, and that’s insanely offensive. We should have been past all this racism crap in the 1960s and 1970s. But bigotry is attractive to too many people. I’m pretty much 100% sure that they’re not respecting jack shit. They had their lawyers review the contract language and the NFL rule book and realized that they would get their asses sued off if they took any unilateral action against him. For some who cry the loudest about lack of patriotism: what have you done for your country? Have you served in the military? Have you held public office? Have you done anything for your country other than to mouth platitudes and put a yellow ribbon magnet on your pickup? Walk the walk, or shut the fuck up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flag-pledge-anthem-whiners/764475.md?page=8)