# Flags of Nations... Have there ever been any conflicts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 27, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578 "2015-06-27T00:07:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578/41 "2015-06-29T03:04:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > My personal way of defining it is just a slight bit different: If you replace the metals (white and yellow) with white and the colors (everything else) with black, you should be able to make out the general design. > > The U.S. flag’s design works fine if both blue and red are represented as black — [http://www.kristiangoddard.net/Blog/Black\_American\_Flag.jpg](http://www.kristiangoddard.net/Blog/Black_American_Flag.jpg) — so the U.S. flag is fine Puerto Rico and Cuba, the Scandinavians, and for that matter every one of the dozens of plain tribands, would say that helps little… Albania would just have to grayscale. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578/42 "2015-06-29T03:09:54Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Puerto Rico and Cuba, the Scandinavians, and for that matter every one of the dozens of plain tribands, would say that helps little … Because those flags are the same basic design. The rule of tinctures doesn’t help you with that. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578/43 "2015-06-29T05:18:50Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > “Next to” isn’t as big a deal – consider the US flag for a moment, several of the red bars (dark) lie “next to” the blue canton (also dark). But dark and light aren’t put _on_ each other. I realised later that this isn’t a perfect example – that’s what comes from being rusty at heraldry – as the canton is sometimes considered a charge (which means that is _is_ lying over the field), which it can do because the stripes are both light and dark and sort of cancel out. A clearer example would be any tricolour where two of the adjacent stripes are both dark or light, such as Germany’s which is Black, Red, and Gold. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578/44 "2015-06-29T18:32:33Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > These examples make a lot of sense from a common sense point of view, but heraldry and vexillology are full of rules which are much less intuitive. A good example is the classic rule of tincture, considered the cornerstone of heraldry and vexillology, according to which metals (i.e., gold and silver, which are represented as yellow and white) should not be placed next to colours (the other colours). All attempts to provide an historical explanation for this rule, which is taken very seriously by experts in the field, fail to provide any sort of justification why present-day governments should feel bound by it. Interesting current event tied to historical flag info. I was reading "Detailed Minutiae of Soldier Life in the Army of Northern Virginia, 1861-1865, by Carlton McCarthy recently, and the last chapter discusses the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, which is the design currently causing much debate in South Carolina (And the US). It was actually a very interesting history of the battle flag that I had never heard before. General Beauregard’s original design called for a design that was blue with a red “X” or cross, with gold trim and stars. If you look at the flag we are familiar with, flip the blue and red placement, and the white trim and stars would have been gold. A Colonel Miles, who was contacted by General Beauregard to hear his ideas about designing a battle flag that could be easily distinguished from the union’s flag and the CSA’s “stars and bars” on the battlefield, stated that the blue flag and gold went against the rules of heraldry. I never knew the original design was a red cross with gold stars on a blue field, but if anyone knows the rules of heraldry, I’d be curious to know if this is consistent. And for anyone interested, there were a few CSA regiments who used the blue flag with red cross (with white stars) to fight under. A couple of pics for reference: Actual Army of NoVA battle flag [![](http://myimages.bravenet.com/114/408/106/5/3rdxIssuexANVxBattleflag.JPG) ](http://myimages.bravenet.com/114/408/106/5/3rdxIssuexANVxBattleflag.JPG) Similar to proposed original battle flag, except replace white with gold. (I believe this was a flag for a Missouri regiment, but many state regiments used this design, including ones from Mississippi) [http://www.rulen.com/moflag/atm\_flag.jpg](http://www.rulen.com/moflag/atm_flag.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578/45 "2015-06-29T19:21:23Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > A Colonel Miles, who was contacted by General Beauregard to hear his ideas about designing a battle flag that could be easily distinguished from the union’s flag and the CSA’s “stars and bars” on the battlefield, stated that the blue flag and gold went against the rules of heraldry. > > I never knew the original design was a red cross with gold stars on a blue field, but if anyone knows the rules of heraldry, I’d be curious to know if this is consistent. I’m not an expert, but from the description, it violates no rule that I am aware of. It certainly doesn’t violate the rule of tincture. Yellow and white are treated the same in the rule of tincture. If all you were doing was taking the familiar design, flipping the blue and red and exchanging white for yellow, that seems perfectly fine, so far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578/46 "2015-06-29T22:56:12Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > [I imagine Puerto Rico might have cause to be annoyed with Marvel Studios…](http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2014/04/13/captain-america-captain-puerto-rico/) Although the design for Puerto Rico’s flag dates back to the 1800s, it was not adopted as the flag of Puerto Rico (and was actually illegal to fly there) until 1952. And Captain America’s costume predates that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578/47 "2015-06-30T13:18:11Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > According to Wiki, the Moldovan and Andorran flags bear within the central, yellow stripe, distinctive heraldic badges, which would seem to lessen the problem. Up to 1989, the same applied to the flag of Romania – IIRC, a device showing oil derricks and pine trees, among other things – subsequently expunged from the flag, I gather because of its Communist associations. It was only then, that the Romanian and Chadian flags became identical. One feels that both countries have a valid point: Chad had the “plain” version of the flag first, but Romania has been a sovereign state for a lot longer. Not just communism: the badge on the Romanian flag was the crest of the Ceaucescus. Romanians had many reasons to hate the Ceaucescus over and above communism. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578/48 "2015-06-30T13:34:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Now Romania’s on the list. With Andorra and Moldova right behind. > [@Nava](#): > > Andorra had it a century earlier… > [@Sangahyando](#): > > What is it about the blue / yellow / red vertical tricolour, which makes it so particularly attractive? (Moldova is contiguous to Romania, and has spent time in the past as Romanian territory, so the likeness there would seem understandable.) > > According to Wiki, the Moldovan and Andorran flags bear within the central, yellow stripe, distinctive heraldic badges, which would seem to lessen the problem. In Andorra, the coat of arms appears on the state flag. The civil flag—the one that ordinary citizens are allowed to display—doesn’t have it. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578/49 "2015-06-30T17:59:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not just communism: the badge on the Romanian flag was the crest of the Ceaucescus. Romanians had many reasons to hate the Ceaucescus over and above communism. Right – if the crest of such “unsatisfactory persons”, in the words of Mr. Carroll, had been on my national flag: I’d want it gone, once they had been disposed of. > [@Acsenray](#): > > In Andorra, the coat of arms appears on the state flag. The civil flag—the one that ordinary citizens are allowed to display—doesn’t have it. Thanks ! Being in mood for quoting Lewis Carroll – “curiouser and curiouser !” Seriously, all this stuff is fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578/50 "2015-06-30T22:32:53Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > Thanks ! As you can tell, I’m not a super-attentive follower of current affairs. I notice with a bit of shock, that my “Great World Atlas” is dated 2003 – who knows what else has changed vexillogically, since then? Syria’s flag is a red, white and black background with two stars. From 1963 till 1991 when the First Gulf War ended, Iraq’s flag was nearly identical, save for the fact that it contained three stars. After 1991 Saddam Hussein added Arabic script to it, making it much more distinct from that of Syria. Since the 2003 invasion the Iraqis have since made further chances, and now Iraq’s flag contains NO stars and the script has been changed also. Now it is red, white and black with Kufic writing. Iraq Flag 1963-1991: > **[Flags, Symbols, & Currencies of Iraq](https://www.worldatlas.com/flags/iraq)** > > The flag of Iraq is a tricolor flag of red (top), white, and black horizontal bands with green inscription "Takbir" on white. The national anthem is Mawtini, while Iraqi dinar is the official currency Iraq Flag 1991-2003: > **[Flags, Symbols, & Currencies of Iraq](https://www.worldatlas.com/flags/iraq)** > > The flag of Iraq is a tricolor flag of red (top), white, and black horizontal bands with green inscription "Takbir" on white. The national anthem is Mawtini, while Iraqi dinar is the official currency Iraq flag Current: [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/iz.html](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/iz.html) Egypt has the same background with an eagle in the middle, Yemen has only the background and no insignia, with Syria having two stars. Syria’s flag may be changed if Bashar Assad is forced out of power by rebels. They want this flag, the country’s original. [http://www.theflagshop.co.uk/syrian-flag-1932-1958--1961-1963-4668-p.asp](http://www.theflagshop.co.uk/syrian-flag-1932-1958--1961-1963-4668-p.asp) Much better in my opinion and unique, making it distinctly Syrian and setting it apart. By the way here is a gallery of current flags of the world, CIA World Factbook. [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/flagsoftheworld.html](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/flagsoftheworld.html) Jordan, Palestine, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates and Sudan also have similar flags. But nothing comes close to the case of Chad and Romania in likeness. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578/51 "2015-07-01T13:11:03Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > Syria’s flag is a red, white and black background with two stars. From 1963 till 1991 when the First Gulf War ended, Iraq’s flag was nearly identical, save for the fact that it contained three stars. > > After 1991 Saddam Hussein added Arabic script to it, making it much more distinct from that of Syria. Since the 2003 invasion the Iraqis have since made further chances, and now Iraq’s flag contains NO stars and the script has been changed also. Now it is red, white and black with Kufic writing. > > Iraq Flag 1963-1991: > > [Flags, Symbols, & Currencies of Iraq - World Atlas](http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/iraq/iqflags.htm) > Iraq Flag 1991-2003: > > [Flags, Symbols, & Currencies of Iraq - World Atlas](http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/iraq/iqflags.htm) > > Iraq flag Current: > > [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/iz.html](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/iz.html) > Egypt has the same background with an eagle in the middle, Yemen has only the background and no insignia, with Syria having two stars. > > Syria’s flag may be changed if Bashar Assad is forced out of power by rebels. They want this flag, the country’s original. > [http://www.theflagshop.co.uk/syrian-flag-1932-1958--1961-1963-4668-p.asp](http://www.theflagshop.co.uk/syrian-flag-1932-1958--1961-1963-4668-p.asp) > > Much better in my opinion and unique, making it distinctly Syrian and setting it apart. > > By the way here is a gallery of current flags of the world, CIA World Factbook. > > [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/flagsoftheworld.html](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/flagsoftheworld.html) > Jordan, Palestine, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates and Sudan also have similar flags. > > But nothing comes close to the case of Chad and Romania in likeness. Many thanks. I’ve had the impression for pretty well all of my 60+ years, that the Muslim Middle East has always been a headache for the flag-fan: flags often looking more than a little similar to each other, plus a lot of of chopping-and-changing. The CIA gallery: most interesting; and very thorough – with entries for various basically uninhabited islands belonging to more-prominent nations. I spotted a number of flag changes, of varying orders of magnitude, from my 2003 atlas-endpaper list. A rather off-topic oddity: CIA gallery gives three just one-nation, one-letter-of-the alphabet, entries: Qatar, Oman, and Yemen – which happen all to be in the Arabian peninsula. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flags-of-nations-have-there-ever-been-any-conflicts/723578.md?page=2)