# Flashing Headlights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 27, 2000, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381 "2000-01-27T15:50:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2000, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/101 "2000-01-27T22:11:00Z")
My head hurts. And DAMN, Springfield is shaping up to be interesting… ---
**Author:** ![StrTrkr777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@StrTrkr777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StrTrkr777)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2000, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/102 "2000-01-27T22:48:00Z")
David, I know that a number of times the police are out to generate revenue, that is why I clarified it with as long as their goal is getting people to slow down (or something like that). As for those wanting to control cars, next you are going to want a system to license those who own and drive cars. You will be wanting to add a picture to that license. Our right to keep and bare cars is in the consitution. I lernd that in skewl. Any other questions. Jeffery ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/103 "2000-01-28T01:14:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Incidentally, on the whole photo thing – it seems to me that this could be easily fought. Prove it was me in the car. If all you have is a photo of the plate, you don’t know who is driving. And “cars” can’t break laws, only people can. Some of these cameras take two pictures, one of the license plate and one of the driver. Don’t forget to wear your masks out there, folks! 😉 -Melin ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/104 "2000-01-28T02:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Glitch: > **Anybody want any bets on how long it takes for the personal attacks to start?** ## I’d like to state for the record that **I** was the first to sniff out and lambast our friend accordingly in MPSIMS: [http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/004295.html](http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/004295.html) Love stinks! (Yeah, yeah!) ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/105 "2000-01-28T03:29:00Z")
Melin said: > [@](#): > > Some of these cameras take two pictures, one of the license plate and one of the driver. > > Don’t forget to wear your masks out there, folks! 🙂 When I’m on long trips, I often wear a hat that would hide part of my face – not because of that but to shade the sun. Wonder if that would get me off the ticket. A friend of mine told me a story – possibly a variant on an urban legend, but instead of a FOAF, she said it happened to her father. So what the hell, I’ll retell it. She said that soon after the photo tickets started (as Melin noted, with a photo including the driver), her father got a ticket in the mail with a photo. The photo was obviously not him (it was a girl). As he was going up the elevator to the courtroom, he was talking to somebody and mentioned how disgusted he was about this process because _he_ had to come in just to show that it wasn’t _him_ driving. (It was his other daughter, but I don’t think he mentioned that in the elevator chat.) Anyway, he gets up to the courtroom, waits, and who should walk in wearing the judge’s robes but the guy he was bitching to in the elevator?! The judge let him off. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/106 "2000-01-28T04:05:00Z")
Heh – great story if it’s true! I do note that in every courthouse I’ve been in (in five or six states) the judges have their own private elevators that are not accessible by the public (I’ve been on them when I’ve either been sitting as a temporary judge or when I’ve been with a friend who is a judge). This might not be true in every courthouse everywhere, obviously. -Melin ---
**Author:** ![PUNdit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@PUNdit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PUNdit)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/107 "2000-01-28T04:12:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by David B: > Well, there is that, I guess. I hadn’t thought of it that way. Still sounds like more bullshit to get money rather than working on more serious problems, like crime. ☹ HMMM, it seems to me that one of the things cops hear most when they pull over a traffic violater is that the cop should leave law abiding people that are driving a tad fast alone and go solve “real” crimes. The camera frees up a cop to go work on “real” crimes and still maintain traffic laws. Maybe you won’t slow down after one photo-op, but get a couple, and perhaps face loss of license, and you will pay more attention to traffic laws. Germany has had this system in place for quite a while (it was not new when we were there from 91 to 96.) I got photographed one time, and paid my fine. The picture was quite good, showed my license plate and my face and they got my good side. BTW, we were told (by US MP’s – could be true or could be propaganda to keep us in line) that if the driver had something on to hide his face, the Polizei would come take your license plates. You could appeal at their equivalent of a court house, but you would expect to pay a whopping fine. Putting something on your front plate to obscure it would get you pulled over by the first Polezei that saw it, or get your car booted if it was parked. * * * “You can be smart or pleasant. For years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.” Elwood P. Dowd ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/108 "2000-01-28T10:54:00Z")
Denmark recently got a system like this in place, and the photograph shows both the driver and the license plate. Quite clearly, too - of course, if one were to drive with a ski mask, I guess one could challenge the ticket in court. Before the system got routine, a couple of interesting adjustments had to be made: Seatbelts are mandatory in Denmark, but you can’t fine somebody for not wearing a seatbelt with theses photos as evidence. The judges apparently considered this to be a case of unauthorized surveiilance on par with videotaping every single car on road to look for offenders. Not allowed. The passenger seat is completely blanked out on the photo. Why ? Privacy! A lot of people (the offender’s spouse for instance) might see the photo, and it’s not their business who was in the car with the offender. OK, a question I’ve never got a proper answer to: What about us two-wheelers ? No front license plate, and recognizing a face in a full-face helmet is hard, even more so if the rider is wearing sunglasses. Anyone ever heard of a MC rider getting a photo ticket ? * * * # Norman. Worrying is the thinking man’s form of meditation. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/109 "2000-01-28T11:45:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Melin: > > ``` > I do note that in every courthouse I've been in (in five or six states) the judges have their own private elevators that are not accessible by the public (I've been on them when I've either been sitting as a temporary judge or when I've been with a friend who is a judge). This might not be true in every courthouse everywhere, obviously. > > ``` Hmm… I thought the judges had to shinny up and down a brass pole to get from floor to floor? * * * – Teeming Millions: [http://fathom.org/teemingmillions](http://fathom.org/teemingmillions) “Meat flaps, yellow!” - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat O p a l C a t [www.opalcat.com](http://www.opalcat.com) ---
**Author:** ![PeeQueue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@PeeQueue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeeQueue)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/110 "2000-01-28T15:10:00Z")
I’ve heard that if you put Seran wrap over your plates the picture doesn’t come out (at least at night - due to the flash). Anyone know if this is true? PeeQueue ---
**Author:** ![CatInHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@CatInHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInHat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/111 "2000-01-28T15:16:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by CatInHat: > **A few years ago, I heard about a case where a driver flashed his lights at someone (to warn them of a speed trap). The cops picked him up and charged him with obstruction of justice, or some such thing. IIRC, he argued successfully on First Amendment grounds that his right to communicate with other motorists by flashing his headlights at them was protected free speech.** Sorry, David, I haven’t been able to find a reference for this case. That doesn’t prove anything either way; it’s strange enough to be a UL, but still believable, given the cases that do get decided on First Amendment grounds. Any of you legal eagles out there heard anything about this one? * * * Never attribute to malice anything that can be attributed to stupidity. – Unknown ---
**Author:** ![Felice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e4f/32.png) [@Felice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Felice)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/112 "2000-01-28T16:27:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve heard that if you put Seran wrap over your plates the picture doesn’t come out (at least at night - due to the flash). Anyone know if this is true? I’ve never heard that, but it seems like an empirical question. Go home tonight, put saran wrap over your license plate, use a flash camera to photograph your car, and see what develops. And then let us know! Actually, if I remember I’ll try it tonight myself. ---
**Author:** ![PeeQueue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@PeeQueue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeeQueue)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/113 "2000-01-28T16:55:00Z")
Are you kidding? It’s _freezing_ out there! I’m not staying out there any longer than I have to. But if you do it, I’d be curious to hear what happens. PeeQueue ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2000, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/114 "2000-01-29T06:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by CatInHat: > \*\* Sorry, David, I haven’t been able to find a reference for this case. That doesn’t prove anything either way; it’s strange enough to be a UL, but still believable, given the cases that do get decided on First Amendment grounds. > \*\* Not exactly. The closest I can come (and still without a cite, sadly) was a case in which undercover officers were attemping to buy (or possibly sell) drugs in some open, public area (boardwalk-type thing, as I recall). A passer-by, who recognized one of the officers from a previous encounter, told his friends, “Hey, those are narcs.” It was a matter of dispute at the trial as to whether he did this in a conversational tone, or shouted it loudly for all to hear. In any event, the cops arrested him for obstructing a police officer in the performance of his duties, which was a crime in that state. (This was not a Virginia case, obviously). One of his defenses at trial was a claimed First Amendment right to say that the cops were cops, as I recall. Unfortunately, I don’t remember anything useful, like the state, the year, or even the ultimate decision. But it seems to be more or less on point to what we’re discussing. So if someone with a current Westlaw account wants to do some digging, there is case law out there. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/115 "2000-01-28T19:11:00Z")
Holey Metal, Batman! 100+ replies in just one day. Glad I didn’t ask for e-mail notices. 😃 * * * When danger reared its ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/116 "2000-01-28T19:19:00Z")
_David B: (Man, AWB is gonna come home from work, check out the board, see a huge number of posts in the thread he started, and think, “What the hell happened here?!”)_ Exactly! And while the debate was lively, I assumed it’d stay fairly on-topic. Silly me! 🙂 * * * When danger reared its ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/117 "2000-01-28T19:21:00Z")
Well, it just went on a huge detour, but once the source of said detour was thrown out of the car, we got back on track. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/118 "2000-01-28T19:25:00Z")
Didn’t take long, either, David; all it needed was for someone to flash the headlights. ---
**Author:** ![SwimmingRiddles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SwimmingRiddles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwimmingRiddles)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/119 "2000-01-28T19:47:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Felice: > \*\* > Me, I never worried about it. I long ago discovered a foolproof trick to never getting a speeding ticket. > \*\* Do tell. And if it’s the flirting with the cop trick, while I am ALL for using whatever advantages we chicks are given, I’m so angry when I get pulled over that turning on my feminine charm tends to be out of the question. First (and last) time I got pulled over, I opened the window and said “WHAT?” Needless to say, I did NOT get out of that ticket… * * * One must have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing star. -Nietzche ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2000, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381/120 "2000-01-28T20:01:00Z")
I’m guessing her foolproof way to avoid a speeding ticket is to abide by the speed limit. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flashing-headlights/17381.md?page=7)