# "Flat as a pancake" in American vernacular **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301 "2022-05-29T14:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/1 "2022-05-29T14:15:40Z")
In describing galaxies as “flat as a pancake” it occurred to me that the word “pancake” might mean different things to different people. To me, as a Brit, I think immediately of the crepe-style pancakes, that are dinner-plate sized, and just a few millimetres thick. So “pancake” implies to me not just very flat but also rather thin. But Americans more typically eat (stacks of) the palm-sized, thicker pancakes, right? So do Americans use the phrase “flat as a pancake” and does it still imply _thin_ as well as flat? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/2 "2022-05-29T14:24:20Z")
Usually. If Wakko’s shiny new anvil falls on Yakko, then Yakko might well be termed flat as a pancake. That’s usually the context I hear it used in, of something that used to be fine but has since been mashed into something thinner. I have heard it used to refer to an area of land. Standing water is a problem here because the land is flat as a pancake, but that’s more rare. To me, that only refers to it being flat. And, of course, I’ve heard it applied to a woman’s boobage (or lack thereof), which would imply both flattage and thinnage. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/3 "2022-05-29T14:55:06Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I have heard it used to refer to an area of land. Standing water is a problem here because the land is flat as a pancake, but that’s more rare. To me, that only refers to it being flat. Particularly Kansas, in popular opinion, although according to this article, Florida is actually the flattest state. [https://kswheat.com/news/rediscover-kansas-on-national-pancake-day-is-kansas-flatter-than-a-pancake](https://kswheat.com/news/rediscover-kansas-on-national-pancake-day-is-kansas-flatter-than-a-pancake) ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/4 "2022-05-29T15:00:46Z")
Mmmmm, now I want pancakes. AND crepes! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/5 "2022-05-29T15:39:35Z")
Yes, pancakes are thin and flat, but not as extremely (proportionally) thin as some crepes. So the real question is, how thick is Kansas? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/6 "2022-05-29T16:11:03Z")
I looked at several online dictionaries ([one example here](https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/as+flat+as+a+pancake)) and the meanings I found are the ones that @GreysonCarlisle gave: extremely flat/level (often said of land), or squished flat, or small-breasted. I didn’t see anything about thinness. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/7 "2022-05-29T16:23:25Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I looked at several online dictionaries ([one example here](https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/as+flat+as+a+pancake)) and the meanings I found are the ones that @GreysonCarlisle gave: extremely flat/level (often said of land), or squished flat, or small-breasted. That’s consistent with my understanding/usage of the term, too. It communicates flatness, not necessarily thinness. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/8 "2022-05-29T16:27:18Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I looked at several online dictionaries ([one example here](https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/as+flat+as+a+pancake)) and the meanings I found are the ones that @GreysonCarlisle gave: extremely flat/level (often said of land), or squished flat, or small-breasted. I didn’t see anything about thinness. I disagree. I think that the “squished flat” example is more about thinness than about flatness. You were tooling along the highway just fine until you crossed the center line, and then that 18-wheeler squished you flat as a pancake. Being very thin is your major problem at that point. I also think that thinness and flatness are one and the same with regard to breasteses. Lego people might be different. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/9 "2022-05-29T16:31:32Z")
Thanks for the responses so far. I’m also confused now about whether in British English the key thing is thinness or flatness. It’s because I was describing the milky way as like a pancake, and then saying that passing through the thin part – punching a hole in the pancake – would take 1000 years at light speed (putting time dilation aside). It’s a somewhat less impressive comparison for an American audience though. I think a more international analogy might be a thin crust pizza. But unfortunately, inevitably, people may ask what the galaxy’s topping is. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/10 "2022-05-29T17:21:53Z")
Personally, I have always mentally parsed this expression as two dimensional, referring to the planar surface of the flapjack or crepe, with no consideration of its vertical depth. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/11 "2022-05-29T17:41:25Z")
When I hear that term, I picture flat landscape, usually something like the Mojave desert, almost like a zoomed in closeup of the surface of a pancake. I don’t think about its thinness at all. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/12 "2022-05-29T18:01:24Z")
For what it’s worth, by the way, a crepe is a reasonable approximation of the Galaxy’s proportions (other than the central bulge), but an American pancake is much too thick. The usual comparison I’ve seen for the Galaxy’s proportions is a CD. And one can of course find crepes, blini, etc. in the US (one can find almost anything here), but Americans usually think of those dishes as being “related to pancakes”, not “a kind of pancake”. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/13 "2022-05-29T18:02:32Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > So the real question is, how thick is Kansas? A substantial number of the ones I’ve met have been plenty thick. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/14 "2022-05-29T18:20:26Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > So the real question is, how thick is Kansas? The thickness of the [continental crust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_crust) in Kansas is about 50km. The area of Kansas is a little over 80,000 square miles, which is equivalent to the area of a circle of diameter 500km. The 3-dimensional shape of Kansas is therefore proportional to a pancake that is one-tenth the thickness of its diameter. This is much thicker than a crepe, but quite similar to an adequately fluffy American pancake. My conclusion, therefore, is that it would be correct to say that Kansas is as flat as an _American_ pancake, and that its patriotic credentials are unsullied. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/15 "2022-05-29T20:06:26Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > > [@Gary\_T](#): > > > > So the real question is, how thick is Kansas? > > A substantial number of the ones I’ve met have been plenty thick. Wow! I guess I’m one of today’s lucky 10,000. I never knew before that there’s more than one Kansas. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/16 "2022-05-29T20:23:26Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I’m also confused now about whether in British English the key thing is thinness or flatness. As another Brit, i always thought of it as thinness _and_ flatness … but mainly thinness - the flatness being pretty much a consequence of the thinness. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/17 "2022-05-29T20:27:56Z")
I think (also a Brit) that I might draw a distinction between just “flat as a pancake”, which can apply to flat terrain, and carries no necessary implication of thinness; and “ **squashed** as flat as a pancake”, which clearly does. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/18 "2022-05-29T20:41:48Z")
Now that i think about it, i wouldn’t apply the phrase to terrain or sea - i’d just say flat or smooth. But maybe that’s just me as all the (online) dictionaries seem to use terrain or sea as examples ! As usual - it’s a matter of context. ---
**Author:** ![a6ka97](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@a6ka97](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a6ka97)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/19 "2022-05-29T20:48:20Z")
The American rock band Head East had an album titled “Flat As a Pancake” with a picture of a pancake with syrup (and a pat of butter) puddled in the middle of the pancake. Guessing it has to do with the flatness of something, not necessarily the thickness. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301/20 "2022-05-29T20:50:29Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think (also a Brit) that I might draw a distinction between just “flat as a pancake”, which can apply to flat terrain, and carries no necessary implication of thinness; and “ **squashed** as flat as a pancake”, which clearly does. As an American I think you’ve hit American usage perfectly as well with this. By itself “F as a P” connotes flatness = lack of vertical relief. When coupled with a verb like “squashed” or similar, thinness gets added to the meaning. As to this part: > [@Riemann](#): > > The thickness of the [continental crust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_crust) in Kansas is about 50km. > > The area of Kansas is a little over 80,000 square miles, which is equivalent to the area of a circle of diameter 500km. > > The 3-dimensional shape of Kansas is therefore proportional to a pancake that is one-tenth the thickness of its diameter. This is much thicker than a crepe, but quite similar to an adequately fluffy American pancake. IME American restaurant pancakes come in two common forms. One is about 1/4" thick and 3-4" in diameter, and the other is more like 3/8" thick and 8-9" in diameter. So the former has a diameter:thickness ratio of 12 to 16 and the latter more like 20 to 25. As you quite rightly say, Kansas’s ratio is 10. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-as-a-pancake-in-american-vernacular/965301.md?page=2)