# Flat earth theory. Serious question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 26, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234 "2016-02-26T18:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/21 "2016-02-27T01:14:18Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > There is more than one separate body of Flat Earthers (“FE”). Because their evidence is mostly fabricated, there’s no reason any two FE societies have to have the same motives or the same explanations. > > \ > > My bottom line: I appreciate the OP’s question and I agree with the intent of his curiosity. But I think this is akin to asking “what’s really at the end of a rainbow? We know it’s not a pot a gold, so what is it?” The problem isn’t that there’s nothing special at the end of a rainbow. The problem is there is no end of a rainbow at all. You have a point, however I just learned something from your post, so this hasn’t been a total bust. I didn’t realize there were folks that believed in different _versions_ of FE. That was news to me. > [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Great question! > > I’m still skeptical of the whole seriousness thing myself - much of the material does seem like it could be an elaborate in-joke/whoosh that I’m not fully “getting”. Many of the arguments that they use are so specious that it makes me wonder how any rational person with a high-school level understanding of science could actually believe them. I am suspecting the in-joke/whoosh thing more and more. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/22 "2016-02-27T01:15:57Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > …They have a working model of what the earth looks like. They talk about the earth as a flat disk, centered on the arctic and surrounded by a huge wall of ice (Antarctica.)… And this would be the key to proving their theory…if it was real. All they would have to do to prove their theory (or at least advance it into the mainstream) would be to mount an expedition to the edge and bring back photos of said edge. It wouldn’t even be that hard - rig a plane with cameras and whatever other gear they might need and convince a pilot to fly it over the Antarctic (and possibly the Arctic too). If the answer is that all of the pilots that they can find are too afraid of crashing into the wall of ice and won’t try it, then surely they can find a pilot that believes in a spherical earth, or at least a flat-earther pilot so desperate for money that he would risk flying into a wall of ice. If the answer is that they don’t have enough money, then there’s always Kickstarter. I’d kick in a few dollars for the pride in sitting back and watching them have their hearts broken when the results come back. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/23 "2016-02-27T02:24:21Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > . . . I was just wondering if they came to this via some biblical passage, or if there was some other driving force? . . . Good old Charles Johnson had Biblical reasons, but, of course, his most important reason was common sense. Take a globe of the earth, like in most schoolrooms. Take a chess pawn. Try to stand the pawn on, say, Chicago. It falls off. Seriously: that’s the level of reasoning involved. Johnson endlessly repeated the dictum about “water seeks its own level.” If the world were curved, water in a canal would run “downhill” at the ends. We’re dealing with very, very simplistic people here. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/24 "2016-02-27T02:32:38Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > … > I am suspecting the in-joke/whoosh thing more and more. That really is the only explanation that makes any sense. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/25 "2016-02-27T02:35:34Z")
As to joke / whoosh … There’s probably a few of those. Just like there are folks putting out truly stupid YouTube vids just to gain the page-views & the revenue. Basically pranking the planet for lulz & profit. If you can find a FE society that sells books or memberships or something I could certainly accept that being a long con run by the sensible but venal principals who’re attracting lots of mentally challenged paid-up supporters. But the internet is a big place. There’s probably enough somebodies out there just unbalanced enough to believe all this junk, but not so unbalanced as to be incapable of writing a decent yarn in support of it. Those kinds of guys could be sincere, though utterly confused, FE sect leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/26 "2016-02-27T03:23:46Z")
Charles Johnson, of the old Flat Earth Research Society, really did believe. He was absolutely sincere. He was also absolutely humorless. His wife once took a tour of Australia, and returned with a signed and notarized document, attesting that at no point in her trip had she been “upside down.” Think about the “Freemen of the Land” or “Sovereign Citizen” folks. Absolutely dead serious, no matter how obvious it is to any sane person that their beliefs are crackpottery. ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/27 "2016-02-27T03:36:37Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > I get it. I am not saying you are wrong, you understand. > > I was just wondering if they came to this via some biblical passage, or if there was some other driving force? > > I know that some of these folks think the Moon landing was a hoax, however what **Voyager** described implies they don’t even believe there was a rocket launch. I thought some flat earthers believed the astronaut’s were launched into low earth orbit, thereby solving the problem of eyewitnesses to rocket launches. > > **RivkhaChaya** , I have no idea what is on the “other side”, or why people couldn’t live there. Maybe there IS another tribe of mudpeople down there. To be frank, I couldn’t find a video explaining the basics, (and sitting through just one of these videos will make your head explode. I especially like the “no flight paths across antarctica” proof.) > > I guess I was hoping for something uh… Tangible. I think the “earth is 6000 old” folks claim a biblical source. > > If there is no real answer to this, I guess I will survive. Honestly, I can’t wrap my head around the purpose of “the big secret”. This crazy “spherical world” concept has been here for a looooooong time now, before any instant global communication was even possible, where the ruling class and bankers could get together, agree on the spherical planet idea and and fool us all. > > Maybe the conspiracy lies with globe manufacturers, who would be stuck a pantload of inventory if the truth came out. > > Even if the earth WERE flat, it wouldn’t change my travel plans too much. I have no desire to go to Antartica, so I suspect I will be on the flat part for the rest of my days. There’s a biblical passage that goes (Isaiah 40:22) "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. "… Plus the ‘four corners’ thing that may or may not have been intended poetically. Whether these various verses inspired flat earthers I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/28 "2016-02-27T07:04:09Z")
Part of OP’s question hasn’t been addressed yet: According to the FE doctrine (or to one or another of the many FE doctrines), what reason do they give for why all the governments / rulers / bankers / Jews / whoever would care to hoax all us foolish sheeple so? What do the Flatters imagine that _they_ are getting out of fooling us like this? (ETA: Oh, I just remembered the theory about projecting an illusion of military superiority. Is that all there was to it?) BTW, weren’t these Flat Earth ideas kicking around and well-established well before the “Space Age” and NASA? Or is all this purely contemporary stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/29 "2016-02-27T10:22:55Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > It’s hard for me to believe that flat-earthers aren’t just trolling everybody for some sort of kick. > [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Great question! > > I’m still skeptical of the whole seriousness thing myself - much of the material does seem like it could be an elaborate in-joke/whoosh that I’m not fully “getting”. Many of the arguments that they use are so specious that it makes me wonder how any rational person with a high-school level understanding of science could actually believe them. > [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > That really is the only explanation that makes any sense. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > As to joke / whoosh … > > There’s probably a few of those. Just like there are folks putting out truly stupid YouTube vids just to gain the page-views & the revenue. Basically pranking the planet for lulz & profit. > > If you can find a FE society that sells books or memberships or something I could certainly accept that being a long con run by the sensible but venal principals who’re attracting lots of mentally challenged paid-up supporters. > > But the internet is a big place. There’s probably enough somebodies out there just unbalanced enough to believe all this junk, but not so unbalanced as to be incapable of writing a decent yarn in support of it. Those kinds of guys could be sincere, though utterly confused, FE sect leaders. Back in the summer of 2006 I spent a considerable amount of time reading posts in a FE message board. It was friendly to the RE majority. As far as I can recall I never contributed a post. ISTR something like 6 very active “FE” folks. When the question of seriousness came up, those “in the know” there claimed at least 3 did not actually believe FE. What was interesting is that they did not seem to be trolling in the usual sense. They were not trying to drive people crazy by insisting on what they knew to be nonsense. Rather, they seemed to be pushing for more awareness of the questions of Epistemology. How do we know for sure what we claim to know? _ **Columbus/Magellan proved it was round!** _ is not really a reason to accept a round earth. There are other examples of such facile dismissal. What I found most fascinating was the claim of constant upward acceleration substituted for gravity. There was a comprehensive and well illustrated demonstration that c would not be exceeded. ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/30 "2016-02-27T13:16:39Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Good old Charles Johnson had Biblical reasons, but, of course, his most important reason was common sense. Take a globe of the earth, like in most schoolrooms. Take a chess pawn. Try to stand the pawn on, say, Chicago. > > It falls off. I personally have stood in Chicago and fallen straight off the ground. To be fair, I was very very drunk at the time. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/31 "2016-02-27T15:48:28Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Good old Charles Johnson had Biblical reasons, but, of course, his most important reason was common sense. Take a globe of the earth, like in most schoolrooms. Take a chess pawn. Try to stand the pawn on, say, Chicago. > > It falls off. > > Seriously: that’s the level of reasoning involved. Johnson endlessly repeated the dictum about “water seeks its own level.” If the world were curved, water in a canal would run “downhill” at the ends. > > We’re dealing with very, very simplistic people here. So if I glued a pawn to a globe, he’d think I was a witch? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/32 "2016-02-27T16:15:05Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > So if I glued a pawn to a globe, he’d think I was a witch? Only if it was made of wood. And that is now we can prove that the world is _really_ banana-shaped. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/33 "2016-02-27T16:36:45Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > And this would be the key to proving their theory…if it was real. All they would have to do to prove their theory (or at least advance it into the mainstream) would be to mount an expedition to the edge and bring back photos of said edge. Any Flat Earther who wasn’t personally present on the expedition would dismiss any evidence they brought back as fabricated and part of the conspiracy, and the former Flat Earthers whose minds have changed as having been “gotten” by the conspirators. Heck, even the people personally present would probably think they’d been fooled somehow. ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/34 "2016-02-27T20:26:45Z")
For day to day purely practical purposes how often does it matter? In the morning my sun appears to rise at some point on the eastern edge of a rather ragged more or less fat earth. And appears to across the sunset to a sunset point. The stars appear to behave likewise at night. In the meantime I have to eat and shit and take my medications. Were the earth flat it would serve my purposes. I doubt if any Flat Earther uses a pragmatic justification for their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/35 "2016-02-27T21:01:07Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Many of the arguments that they use are so specious that it makes me wonder how any rational person with a high-school level understanding of science could actually believe them. Underline mine. I’ve never met one of those people who had a high-school level understanding of science; the ones I’ve personally met barely had a primary-school level understanding of addition and substraction. They did have HS diplomas or even college ones… but that attests to the sad state of schooling, not to their understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/36 "2016-02-27T21:02:51Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > I know that some of these folks think the Moon landing was a hoax, however what **Voyager** described implies they don’t even believe there was a rocket launch. I thought some flat earthers believed the astronaut’s were launched into low earth orbit, thereby solving the problem of eyewitnesses to rocket launches. Some moon hoaxers seem to think that deep space travel is impossible due to radiation - they have no problem with orbital travel. Flat Earthers would. They could accept a non-orbital trip like Shepherd or Grissom did for Mercury, but I don’t see how even low earth orbit would work. The physics wouldn’t work. Unless Sir Isaac was in on the conspiracy also. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/37 "2016-02-27T21:40:47Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > I guess I was hoping for something uh… Tangible. I think the “earth is 6000 old” folks claim a biblical source. What makes you think a biblical source is any more “tangible” than simple stupidity and madness? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/38 "2016-02-27T21:44:40Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Some moon hoaxers seem to think that deep space travel is impossible due to radiation - they have no problem with orbital travel. Flat Earthers would. They could accept a non-orbital trip like Shepherd or Grissom did for Mercury, but I don’t see how even low earth orbit would work. The physics wouldn’t work. > Unless Sir Isaac was in on the conspiracy also. Physics? Seriously? They probably think “orbiting” is flying in circles around the flat disk. If you tried to explain free-fall to them, they’d probably laugh at you and walk away thinking _you_ were stupid for _your_ weird beliefs. You might as well go back in time and try to explain the germ theory to someone in 1260. Or how mammalian reproduction works. If you try to explain how the space shuttle stays in orbit to a bright 8th grader with good grades, they’ll understand, because they have the background (or maybe they already know-- explain it to a 6th grader then, whatever). Flat-earthers don’t have the background to understand the difference between the way an airplane flies within the atmosphere, and the way a rocket travels in space. They accept that airplanes can fly, so they probably would accept that something that looks like a rocket, or a space shuttle, could fly like an airplane, just a little further away. Over the flat disk. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/39 "2016-02-27T22:52:16Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > What makes you think a biblical source is any more “tangible” than simple stupidity and madness? Depends on your point of view… Again, I am not interested in debating whether the bible is factual or not. I was just wondering what they were hanging their theory ON. If the FT society had some passage from the OT or NT that said something like “thy earth is flat… Thou can climb to the edge of the ice, but careful! If thou slips and falls, there is no way back, for thy fell off the edge.” (My bible-fu is bad), I could say “oh, I now understand the origin of their premise.” That won’t change my personal thoughts on the shape of the earth. > [@Voyager](#): > > Some moon hoaxers seem to think that deep space travel is impossible due to radiation - they have no problem with orbital travel. Flat Earthers would. They could accept a non-orbital trip like Shepherd or Grissom did for Mercury, but I don’t see how even low earth orbit would work. The physics wouldn’t work. > Unless Sir Isaac was in on the conspiracy also. I am not trying to imply I have any knowledge of what FE’s think, or want to argue about the merits (or lack thereof) of the logic. I am not an advocate of the group. My bigger (and still unanswered question) is WHY they think this has been covered up? As **janeslogin** points out, for all practical purposes it doesn’t matter for day-to-day life. So, for the rich and powerful to concoct this elaborate mythology doesn’t make as much sense to me as something like religion, which DOES have the benefit of helping to control the masses. ---
**Author:** ![He\_sDead66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c67d28/32.png) [@He\_sDead66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/He_sDead66)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234/40 "2016-02-27T23:01:00Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > I like to think of myself as open-minded. > > However, I didn’t really think that flat-earth people were serious. I thought it was just an amusing thing folks used to be social and have some fun. > > But after spending a few minutes on the web, I discovered there is an official society, and there appear to be a number of conspiracy videos on YouTube. > > I watched a couple of the videos, and I think I understand what they are saying from a visual perspective. I don’t want to get into the technical questions I have on what is underneath, etc. > > What I am not clear on is why they believe there is a conspiracy to cover up this “fact”. If the earth was flat, why would the governments of the world try to keep it quiet?\* > > Is this a religious thing? Was there a mention of a flat earth in the bible somewhere? Or are there aliens tied to this idea? I am just not clear on what the benefit of telling the masses that the earth is round buys the folks who run the planet. > > \*Disclaimer - This is a serious question. I am not in any way trying to make light of someone’s personal beliefs. If you want to respond, please keep in mind we are in GQ, not the Pit. blah blah blah, all you’re doing is going after low hanging fruit. Makes you look quite desperate, do you need reassurance or something? Congrats, you don’t believe the earth is flat, that just makes you about as knowledgeable as 99.9% of the population. Why do they believe it? Who cares, frankly, it’s a stupid theory either way [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earth-theory-serious-question/747234.md?page=3)