# Flat Earthers - how do they defend obvious flaws in their theory **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 4, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016 "2018-03-04T17:40:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Backwater\_Under\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Backwater\_Under\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Backwater_Under_Duck)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/21 "2018-03-07T02:05:34Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > [You may find this article interesting.](http://bigthink.com/stephen-johnson/understanding-the-really-ridiculous-core-tenets-of-the-flat-earth-hypothesis?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook) > > “The earth is surrounded on all sides by an ice wall that holds the oceans back. This ice wall is what explorers have named Antarctica,” reads the Flat Earth Society’s FAQ. “Beyond the ice wall is a topic of great interest to the Flat Earth Society. To our knowledge, no one has been very far past the ice wall and returned to tell of their journey. What we do know is that it encircles the earth and serves to hold in our oceans and helps protect us from whatever lies beyond.” > > This is, apparently, only a very small step into the rabbit hole. Looks like they’re going to find out [what’s past the ice wall](https://theoutline.com/post/3612/last-chance-expensive-luxury-tourism-antarctica?zd=1&zi=hv32ikhr) pretty soon. Tourists seem to be clamoring to see Antarctica before it’s all melted. Then what will they do? I know, I know. Fake news. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/22 "2018-03-07T02:34:26Z")
Simple really, to a conspiracy theorist evidence against their conspiracy theory is interpreted as evidence of an even bigger conspiracy, and you are in it for bringing it up. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/23 "2018-03-07T07:06:27Z")
Is the sun a disc too? What makes the moon change shape in the sky? What happens during an eclipse? Why do planets have different movements across the sky than stars do? How do things orbit around the earth? If they don’t, then how does GPS work? How did the earth form? What is the motivation for continuing the round-earth conspiracy? How did ancient philosophers get a pretty good measurement for how big the earth is? How can someone fly from Spain to America, from America to Japan, from Japan to India, from India to Turkey, and from Turkey to Spain while travelling West the entire time? Why does it get dark on the California coast while it’s still light on the eastern Hawaii coast, even though there’s nothing but ocean in between to block the sun? Why does it get cold in the winter and warm in the summer? Why does summer in the northern hemisphere correlate with winter in the summer hemisphere? Why can you see the sun setting over the horizon, even when you’re in an airplane way above anything that could possibly obstruct your view? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/24 "2018-03-07T07:40:10Z")
I think instead of looking at the individual rationalizations, it’s better to look at the psychology that underpins it. You start with the fact that the idea that we are on a sphere is counter-intuitive – it doesn’t look or feel like that. Then you add the fact that once a person has dug a hole for themselves, they’ll generally keep digging, for 2 reasons: 1: It’s embarrassing to admit you were wrong 2: (more important than 1): It’s cool to believe you know something others don’t know or realize. Giving up on that means giving up on something that you thought made you special and replacing it with the same, or less, knowledge, as everyone else. In a way it’s more interesting how people can finally escape from this kind of belief. Flat earthers are still relatively rare because they will encounter many people who’ll tell them they’re nuts, as well as pictures of a spherical earth all over the place. It takes that much more willpower to hold on to that belief. And of course: many flat-earthers are just play acting for the lolz. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_sausage\_bandit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yellow_sausage_bandit/32/394_2.png) [@yellow\_sausage\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellow_sausage_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/25 "2018-03-07T14:07:59Z")
The [Great Ice Ball Earth theory](https://i.imgur.com/N0euEQr.jpg) solves all problems of the outdated flat earth theory imo. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/26 "2018-03-08T02:35:40Z")
To my mind, flat earth is about as plausible as most religions. Ducks.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/27 "2018-03-08T16:46:52Z")
> [@Noel\_Prosequi](#): > > I put a lot of it down to “crazed positivism”. A tenet of positivism is that if you have a theory that all swans are white, then seeing one more white swan adds very little strength to the theory, but seeing one black swan overturns the theory entirely. This “tiny little fact that turns everything you thought you knew upside down” approach to the world can be infatuating. > > Of course, the tiny little fact must be _true_. You must be sure that your black swan is actually black (not just covered in mud) and that it is actually a swan, not some similar-looking species. In the real world, issues of onus and standard of proof lie behind “it only takes one black swan” thinking. Not all “facts” are of equal value. Sometimes, prior theories are so robustly established that it is far easier to believe the “fact” is untrue, or at least misinterpreted, than it is to believe that the prior theory is overturned. Remarkable claims require remarkable evidence. > > Crazed positivism lies behind most conspiracy theories, from lens artefacts “proving” the moon landing is a hoax, to paint flecks that allegedly don’t contain enough Zyklon B that “prove” that the Holocaust never happened. > > The emotional drivers that foster this distortion of logic run from simple contrarianism to a wish to create meaning in an otherwise dull life by Finding the Truth. And if you can surround yourself with similar converts so that external criticism only serves to reinforce the group’s world view that it is being oppressed, then you’ve got a little self-perpetuating wing-nut colony.“Persecution ideology” is a known glitch in thinking that has kept many a cult alive well past its use-by date. This describes one of my family relatives, a Flat Earther. It doesn’t matter if her theory has 500 flaws - as long as YOUR argument has even just 1 hole in it, you’ve been debunked. Your flaws carry far greater weight than hers. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/28 "2018-03-11T10:36:34Z")
My theory is that Flat Earthers are just having a laugh at our expense. It’s a big put on, they pretend to believe this nonsense, and people take the bait to refute them. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/29 "2018-03-11T10:53:50Z")
If a flat earther makes a phone call at noon their time to someone very far away, and that person says it’s night there and no sun, how can that be reconciled with the flat earth theory? If the sun is visible on a flat disc earth to one party, how is it invisible to another (ignoring clouds, of course)? ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/30 "2018-03-11T12:56:24Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > […] > Same thing with seeing the masts first on sailing ships, the horizon, and so on. > […] This particular arguing point has long interested me. I have tried to observe this, and make a point of it every summer during our beach vacation. Never yet have I seen that this is what actually happens. I think it’s because horizons are messy places full of haze and reflections and poor contrast that make long distance vision unclear. I’m definitely in the round earth camp. But I gotta say, it doesn’t seem that this simple little test easily proves it. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/31 "2018-03-11T13:46:35Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > If a flat earther makes a phone call at noon their time to someone very far away, and that person says it’s night there and no sun, how can that be reconciled with the flat earth theory? If the sun is visible on a flat disc earth to one party, how is it invisible to another (ignoring clouds, of course)? Massive, magical refraction. Seriously. The Sun is moving in a circle around and above the “north pole”. It’s always above the horizon. But due to magical refraction it appears in different places depending on the viewer’s location. The Sun setting is just very extreme refraction. This magic refraction also makes the stars appear to rise and set without affecting their relative positions in the sky at all! Just don’t ask what media is making this refraction, what it’s made of, how dense it is, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/32 "2018-03-11T13:59:36Z")
> [@yellow\_sausage\_bandit](#): > > The [Great Ice Ball Earth theory](https://i.imgur.com/N0euEQr.jpg) solves all problems of the outdated flat earth theory imo. I’ve just found my next D&D campaign world concept. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016/33 "2018-03-11T14:08:45Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > This particular arguing point has long interested me. I have tried to observe this, and make a point of it every summer during our beach vacation. Never yet have I seen that this is what actually happens. I think it’s because horizons are messy places full of haze and reflections and poor contrast that make long distance vision unclear. I’m definitely in the round earth camp. But I gotta say, it doesn’t seem that this simple little test easily proves it. I see ships on and near the horizon all the time. Rarely do they travel in a straight line toward my shore or away from it, so that’s hard to verify. But there is one phenomenon which manifests itself around June of each year on Lake Michigan – optical inversion. Due to the extreme cold of the water, and the sudden seasonal warming of the air, it is not unusual to see ships upside down near the horizon. Not a sharp image, and you need binoculars or a telescope. I’m sure flat earthers have a reason. But any given reason has to account for this: If I am on the same ship and look towards the shore at that time and distance, _the shoreline appears inverted, too._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers-how-do-they-defend-obvious-flaws-in-their-theory/810016.md?page=1)