# Flat Earthers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 18, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359 "2008-08-18T02:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Our\_Dead\_Selves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@Our\_Dead\_Selves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Our_Dead_Selves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/1 "2008-08-18T02:16:00Z")
So, lately I’ve been reading a lot about those crazycrazy flat earthers-- but I can’t for the life of me find out what they believe is _under_ the world. Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/2 "2008-08-18T02:17:50Z")
It’s turtles all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/3 "2008-08-18T02:22:56Z")
For starters, nobody’s even certain that “they” exist at all. There are certainly at least some members of the Flat Earth Society who are in it just as a joke; it is not certain that there are any who aren’t just joking. Mind you, the ones who are just joking ceased to be funny a long time ago, but since when has that ever stopped anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Our\_Dead\_Selves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@Our\_Dead\_Selves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Our_Dead_Selves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/4 "2008-08-18T02:45:26Z")
Well, maybe not so much anymore, but there do see to be some Christian fundies that literally believed in the “four corners of the world”. At least \this guy\ seemed to believe what he preached. ---
**Author:** ![Our\_Dead\_Selves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@Our\_Dead\_Selves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Our_Dead_Selves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/5 "2008-08-18T02:47:23Z")
Crap, my bad. Here’s the url: [http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm](http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Cider\_Depot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Cider\_Depot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cider_Depot)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/6 "2008-08-18T03:00:35Z")
I had a read of the FAQ at the Flat Earth Society [here](http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=11211.0) , but it’s hard to tell whether or not it’s dry satire. Either way… in my job I use the great circle method all the time to determine the distance between two points on the surface of the Earth, and it seems to work reasonable well. Or did the government get to geometry as well? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/7 "2008-08-18T03:05:03Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] It’s turtles all the way down. [/QUOTE] I’ve always wanted to know: down to what? ---
**Author:** ![Our\_Dead\_Selves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@Our\_Dead\_Selves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Our_Dead_Selves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/8 "2008-08-18T03:07:06Z")
[QUOTE=Cider Depot] I had a read of the FAQ at the Flat Earth Society [here](http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=11211.0) , but it’s hard to tell whether or not it’s dry satire.? [/QUOTE] Although they do give some of the standard “flat earth” answers, the sarcasm meter went through the roof when I read this answer the question “what is underneath the disc?” \*A: This is unknown. Some believe it to be just rocks, others believe the Earth rests on the back of four elephants and a turtle. \* ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/9 "2008-08-18T03:13:31Z")
I’m certain the elephants-on-the-back-of-a-turtle myth predates Pratchett by centuries, but I can’t remember where it comes from. Indian mythology? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/10 "2008-08-18T03:24:09Z")
[QUOTE=Askance] I’ve always wanted to know: down to what? [/QUOTE] More turtles. Assuming that there really are flat earthers, the problem with asking this sort of question is that you are asking it of people who are not factually based people. If they were, they wouldn’t be flat earthers in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/11 "2008-08-18T03:29:10Z")
I always wished I could find a street addy rather than a PO Box for them (I live in Lancaster, where the FES is, or was purportedly based) just so I could go see if they were for real or not. I more than halfway think they’re for real, mostly because I know the sort of people that live out here. Space program be damned, there’s a lot of nutcases. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/12 "2008-08-18T03:34:34Z")
[QUOTE=Queen Bruin] I always wished I could find a street addy rather than a PO Box for them (I live in Lancaster, where the FES is, or was purportedly based) just so I could go see if they were for real or not. [/QUOTE] [Business record](http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C0648871). Status is suspended, and of course Johnson is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/13 "2008-08-18T03:44:54Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] [Business record](http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C0648871). Status is suspended, and of course Johnson is dead. [/QUOTE] From **Our Dead Selves** [Link](http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm): > [@](#): > > In late September 1995, the Johnsons’ venerable high-desert home caught fire. Charles managed to pull Marjory, by then a semi-invalid on supplemental oxygen, to safety, but _everything else in the house was destroyed—their personal possessions, the Flat Earth Society library and archives, the membership list, everything._ Conveniently burned up! I might go poke around tomorrow, in the interest of fighting ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/14 "2008-08-18T03:50:06Z")
[QUOTE=Queen Bruin] I might go poke around tomorrow, in the interest of fighting ignorance. [/QUOTE] I hope you wrote the address down. The SoS server seems to be down now. I was going to get an aerial view from MapQuest. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/15 "2008-08-18T03:58:28Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] I hope you wrote the address down. The SoS server seems to be down now. I was going to get an aerial view from MapQuest. [/QUOTE] 43803 90TH ST E Ack, submitted too soon. I was going to add, I went through Lexis trying to find Mr. Johnson’s record of death and came up with zip. Second ETA: ditto on the wife, although it’s within the realm of possibility that neither of them died here. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/16 "2008-08-18T04:01:26Z")
Looks like there’s a house there now. EDIT: I used to live about a dozen miles from there. (W Ave. K-13 & 23 St. W) ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/17 "2008-08-18T15:07:32Z")
[QUOTE=Askance] I’ve always wanted to know: down to what? [/QUOTE] This comes from an [apocryphal story](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down) about someone lecturing on cosmology, and a woman in the audience rose to claim that the Earth rests on the back of a turtle. The lecturer said, “But madam, what is underneath the turtle?” And she said, “It’s turtles all the way down.” And “down to what?” is exactly the point of the story. The woman was seeking a simple answer to a complex question, and by introducing the simple answer just raises an infinite series of other questions. (Some people use this analogy as a refutation of the argument for the existence of God which claims that a god must exist to have created the universe. The refutation is that it’s far simpler to just say that the universe is here because it somehow came into being in a way we do not understand. They claim that if God created the universe, it doesn’t really solve anything, it just adds a needless layer to the problem–how did God get created? Is it gods all the way down?) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/18 "2008-08-18T15:21:40Z")
It’s alternating layers of roasted pecans, caramel, and chocolate, repeated _ad infinitum_ (certainly not _ad nauseum_). Turtles all the way down, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/19 "2008-08-18T16:17:01Z")
Turtles all the way down is incorrect. There’s only one turtle, upon which are four elephants, upon which is the world shaped like a disc. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359/20 "2008-08-18T16:18:46Z")
[QUOTE=Terminus Est] Turtles all the way down is incorrect. There’s only one turtle, upon which are four elephants, upon which is the world shaped like a disc. [/QUOTE] But, what does the turtle stand on? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-earthers/460359.md?page=2)