# Flat Screen TVs without HD **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 11, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098 "2017-09-11T22:55:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/41 "2017-09-12T18:48:23Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Lets put it this way: Are **all** TVs in production HDTV sets? and will this mean you will have inferior pictures when you don’t have HD service? Yes, they are, and yes, you will. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/42 "2017-09-12T18:49:54Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > I don’t have HD and still use my CRT sets. They still look fine. Me too. But what happens when you get a flat screen TV? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/43 "2017-09-12T19:13:10Z")
I should say that I don’t want to get HDTV. It seems to me from watching at my moms house that the service changes radically. The search functions etc are annoying to the point where I may cut the strings rather than go there. If I could just get the news channels I’d do that. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/44 "2017-09-12T19:19:34Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I should say that I don’t want to get HDTV. It seems to me from watching at my moms house that the service changes radically. The search functions etc are annoying to the point where I may cut the strings rather than go there. > > If I could just get the news channels I’d do that. Local news or CNN? If all you want is to watch your local broadcasts, you can hook up an antenna to the new TV and watch them. Plug your address into [www.antennaweb.org](http://www.antennaweb.org) and it will tell you what stations you can expect to receive & what kind of antenna you need. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/45 "2017-09-12T20:42:17Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > The figures don’t look altered, but the picture is inferior. I should be getting virtually crystal clear reception. It’s blurry and not well defined. > > Is this inherent in the two tvs? Old and Flat screen? Reception from what type of signal? TV antenna? Cable box? Mini-dish satellite? > [@](#): > > One more thing: The volume on this TV is too low. Annoyingly so. I don’t imagine this has much resale value. That’s probably 100% the case. LCD TVs generally have pretty crappy and weak speakers, because the priority is keeping them slim with a small bezel and they’re made with the assumption most people will use external speakers anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/46 "2017-09-12T20:47:30Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I don’t think they’ve made TV’s with analog inputs for quite a while, have they? You’d be surprised how many people want to plug in something like a Super Nintendo or Sega Genesis or some other older device that only has a composite or s-video connector. They usually keep 1 co-ax, 1 component/composite and 1 s-video around for that reason. Eventually you’ll have to buy converter boxes, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/47 "2017-09-12T20:58:09Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Signal source? It’s xfinity. I described it already. What are you asking? Do you have a cable box? I think the problem is you’re using XFinity the way we did in the 90s, where you plug the co-ax directly from the wall into the TV. (This only gets you the bottom, what, 60 or so channels.) My impression is that XFinity turned that off and started requiring a box around 4-5 years ago, but I might be mistaken. If you don’t have a cable box, your signal is a co-ax cable from XFinity pretending to be hooked to a TV antenna so that the tuner in your TV knows how to go from channel to channel. You’re right that any HDTV (except maybe a really old CRT one) is going to have troubles with this, and especially any HDTV manufactured after the analog signal cut-off, since it probably doesn’t even have the correct tuner installed. You have a few options: 1. Buy or borrow an antenna and see how your over-the-air HD reception is, if you’re satisfied with that you can cancel XFinity and use it for free. 2. Call up XFinity and have them give you a cable box. I’m not sure what they charge for this. 3. Plug in your old CRT and wait for XFinity to once and for all turn off the analog signal entirely, postponing the problem until then. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/48 "2017-09-12T21:49:14Z")
> [@Blakeyrat](#): > > Do you have a cable box? > > I think the problem is you’re using XFinity the way we did in the 90s, where you plug the co-ax directly from the wall into the TV. (This only gets you the bottom, what, 60 or so channels.) My impression is that XFinity turned that off and started requiring a box around 4-5 years ago, but I might be mistaken. > > If you don’t have a cable box, your signal is a co-ax cable from XFinity pretending to be hooked to a TV antenna so that the tuner in your TV knows how to go from channel to channel. You’re right that any HDTV (except maybe a really old CRT one) is going to have troubles with this, and especially any HDTV manufactured after the analog signal cut-off, since it probably doesn’t even have the correct tuner installed. > > You have a few options: > > 1. Buy or borrow an antenna and see how your over-the-air HD reception is, if you’re satisfied with that you can cancel XFinity and use it for free. > 2. Call up XFinity and have them give you a cable box. I’m not sure what they charge for this. > 3. Plug in your old CRT and wait for XFinity to once and for all turn off the analog signal entirely, postponing the problem until then. I have cable. I have a cable box. The signal goes from the wall to the box to the TV. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/49 "2017-09-12T21:55:01Z")
> [@Blakeyrat](#): > > Reception from what type of signal? TV antenna? Cable box? Mini-dish satellite? > > That’s probably 100% the case. LCD TVs generally have pretty crappy and weak speakers, because the priority is keeping them slim with a small bezel and they’re made with the assumption most people will use external speakers anyway. I have cable. I have a cable box. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/50 "2017-09-12T22:01:23Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Because you are most likely viewing a low-resolution SD channel. If you watched channel 7 on your tube TV and you’re watching the same SD low resolution channel 7 on your flat screen, the smaller image is being stretched and looks like crap. The same thing happens with little images on the computer. If you take a little thumbnail and stretch it to fill the whole screen, it looks blocky even though it looked perfect when it was tiny. > > Go through the guide and find one of the HD channels. They are often at higher numbers, like maybe above 200. It should say HD somewhere, like “507 ABC (HD)”. See what an HD channel looks like. It looks impossible to me that the increase in size of this image results in the bad picture. It’s not that much bigger for one thing. The new TV is in cinemascope aspect ratio. It doesn’t increase sizes in all directions. I don’t have HD service. I don’t think this will tell me anything. If I had the service why would I be asking all this? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/51 "2017-09-12T23:03:36Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > It looks impossible to me that the increase in size of this image results in the bad picture. It’s not that much bigger for one thing. The new TV is in cinemascope aspect ratio. It doesn’t increase sizes in all directions. > > I don’t have HD service. I don’t think this will tell me anything. If I had the service why would I be asking all this? A SD image is typically 640x480 pixels. A regular HD image is 1920x1080 pixels. The vertical resolution is increased 2.25x. Those pixels have to come from somewhere, and a simple, non upconverting scheme would do this by essentially doubling the size each pixel. This is all \*\*without \*\*stretching in the horizontal direction but instead adding black bars to the sides. You could also check the Picture Settings on your TV remote. There should be a way to show a non-zoomed image. It will be surrounded by black so kind of annoying to watch, but it would at least give you a good idea about what the image looks like without scaling. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/52 "2017-09-12T23:20:45Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I should say that I don’t want to get HDTV. It seems to me from watching at my moms house that the service changes radically. The search functions etc are annoying to the point where I may cut the strings rather than go there. > > If I could just get the news channels I’d do that. I think there’s some confusion about what “HDTV” is. Comcast’s crappy box and slow system are not inherent to HDTVs, they’re just crappy because it’s Comcast. Fire TV, Apple TV, Roku, etc. are all better. If you just want news, cancel Comcast and plug in an over-the-air digital antenna (not one of the old TV ones, but one made for HDTVs). You’ll get HD news over the air. Some stations will look better than others. There’s no good reason to have Comcast unless you’re into sports. All the good stuff is available cheaper online (HBO, many sports, Netflix, etc.). To be explicit: - Your TV will look good with a HD signal from anywhere. That can come from Comcast (bad choice), a digital antenna for news, a streaming box, your laptop, a video game console, etc. - Your TV will look bad with a SD signal from anywhere, including Comcast. This is because modern LED TVs (and they all are) aren’t good at displaying older resolutions from the CRT era. They upsample and it looks blocky and ugly as hell. - Your choice of HD signal is completely separate from your choice of TV. Your TV can use anyone’s signal. You have an HDTV. We’re guessing you’re not getting an HD signal. They’re totally separate. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/53 "2017-09-12T23:27:36Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > A SD image is typically 640x480 pixels. A regular HD image is 1920x1080 pixels. The vertical resolution is increased 2.25x. Those pixels have to come from somewhere, and a simple, non upconverting scheme would do this by essentially doubling the size each pixel. This is all \*\*without \*\*stretching in the horizontal direction but instead adding black bars to the sides. > > You could also check the Picture Settings on your TV remote. There should be a way to show a non-zoomed image. It will be surrounded by black so kind of annoying to watch, but it would at least give you a good idea about what the image looks like without scaling. OK. I’m getting a new one anyway. I don’t know what you just said but the meaning seems to be I’m going to have to upgrade everything and go hi fi tv or else have problems maintaining my preferences over the look while using older tvs. I’ve had this tv since 2002. I have no idea what has happened in tvs since then. But I never had to know technical specs to be a tv viewer before. It’s unfamiliar. To me the tech stuff is gobbledegook. In short: Time for a new tv and maybe upgrade the service. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/54 "2017-09-12T23:33:49Z")
I recommend borrowing a DVD or Bluray player from a friend and connecting it to the TV, just to get an idea of how good the picture on one of these can be. And you mentioned that the TV “is in cinemascope aspect ratio”. That is completely normal. The old fashioned CRT television sets had a 4:3 aspect ratio, while TVs today have a 16:9 aspect ratio. Virtually everything today (cable channels, broadcast channels, DVDs, video game consoles, etc) provides a picture sized for the 16:9 aspect ratio. Or just walk into an electronics store and look at the TVs on display. You’ll get an idea of how much better the picture can be than your old set. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/55 "2017-09-12T23:35:00Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > I think there’s some confusion about what “HDTV” is. Comcast’s crappy box and slow system are not inherent to HDTVs, they’re just crappy because it’s Comcast. Fire TV, Apple TV, Roku, etc. are all better. > > If you just want news, cancel Comcast and plug in an over-the-air digital antenna (not one of the old TV ones, but one made for HDTVs). You’ll get HD news over the air. Some stations will look better than others. > > There’s no good reason to have Comcast unless you’re into sports. All the good stuff is available cheaper online (HBO, many sports, Netflix, etc.). > To be explicit: > > - Your TV will look good with a HD signal from anywhere. That can come from Comcast (bad choice), a digital antenna for news, a streaming box, your laptop, a video game console, etc. > > - Your TV will look bad with a SD signal from anywhere, including Comcast. This is because modern LED TVs (and they all are) aren’t good at displaying older resolutions from the CRT era. They upsample and it looks blocky and ugly as hell. > > - Your choice of HD signal is completely separate from your choice of TV. Your TV can use anyone’s signal. You have an HDTV. We’re guessing you’re not getting an HD signal. They’re totally separate. Sounds like we are at the start of a revolution in video and it’s basically progress. I am totally addicted to cable news: MSNBC, FOX, CNN et al. It needs to be in real time. Can this be done? What is a plug in over the air digital antenna? What are the requirements? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/56 "2017-09-12T23:40:20Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I recommend borrowing a DVD or Bluray player from a friend and connecting it to the TV, just to get an idea of how good the picture on one of these can be. And you mentioned that the TV “is in cinemascope aspect ratio”. That is completely normal. The old fashioned CRT television sets had a 4:3 aspect ratio, while TVs today have a 16:9 aspect ratio. Virtually everything today (cable channels, broadcast channels, DVDs, video game consoles, etc) provides a picture sized for the 16:9 aspect ratio. > > Or just walk into an electronics store and look at the TVs on display. You’ll get an idea of how much better the picture can be than your old set. I did. They were stunning. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/57 "2017-09-12T23:48:00Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I am totally addicted to cable news: MSNBC, FOX, CNN et al. It needs to be in real time. Can this be done? > > What is a plug in over the air digital antenna? What are the requirements? Stay with cable. It’s the only easy way for you to easily get all those channels. While there are streaming options for some news channels, they are separate and are clunky to switch between. Some of those channels do not have independent streaming options at all. If you want to have easy access to all the news channels, you should stay with cable. The over-the-air antenna is just a normal TV antenna like we all used to use a long time ago. It will pick up whatever local stations are being broadcast the same way your car radio picks up local radio stations. There will not be a news channel over the air. It will just be whatever your local ABC, NBC, whatever stations show in their regular programming. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/58 "2017-09-13T00:51:01Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Sounds like we are at the start of a revolution in video and it’s basically progress. If by start you mean 10 years in, sure. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/59 "2017-09-13T00:52:08Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > OK. I’m getting a new one anyway. I don’t know what you just said but the meaning seems to be I’m going to have to upgrade everything and go hi fi tv or else have problems maintaining my preferences over the look while using older tvs. > > I’ve had this tv since 2002. I have no idea what has happened in tvs since then. But I never had to know technical specs to be a tv viewer before. It’s unfamiliar. To me the tech stuff is gobbledegook. > > In short: Time for a new tv and maybe upgrade the service. It’s of course up to you if you want to buy a new TV, but if you’re expecting the picture to be better than on your flatscreen LG, you’re probably going to be disappointed. The problem is not your TV – any flat screen (digital) TV is going to look crappy when you feed it the signal through a coax cable. The problem is the CABLE, not the TV. Look at your cable box. It almost certainly has an HDMI port on it. Your TV likewise has an HDMI port. Get an HDMI cable and plug it in. The picture will be a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098/60 "2017-09-13T00:55:51Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I don’t have HD service. I don’t think this will tell me anything. If I had the service why would I be asking all this? Because an astonishing number of people buy their first HDTV, and order HD service from their cable company (or already had it) but plug it in the same way their old CRT was plugged in, say via coax, then complain about how lousy the picture is. I know I’ve participated in at least 2 such threads on this board alone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flat-screen-tvs-without-hd/796098.md?page=4)