If there are terrorists the unarmed pilot is useless. (how often are these guys pissing anyway? 
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These pilots are also trained in defensive tactics, including weapon retention.
This occurrance has proven that the current regulation isn’t a good idea. Why argue in favor of it?
I wasn’t arguing in favor of it. I was arguing against your alternative. I will certainly agree that any scheme that involves a lock that has a chance of pulling the trigger :eek: is desperately in need of at least some correction.
Anyway, if there aren’t terrorists, then carrying around the gun is useless, so let’s enertain the possibility that there might be some, shall we? If there are terrorists, then yes, the unarmed pilot is “useless”. That puts him in exactly the same category as the flight attendants and passengers - that is, everyone who’s outside the cockpit. So, if a terrorist got the pissing pilot, I’d expect the remaining pilot to keep the door locked and carry on with flying the plane alone, just as he would if the terrorist got anyone else outside the cockpit. I would expect him to do this even if the pilot outside had a gun; the only significant difference being that, in that case, the terrorist now has the pilot’s gun too.
It certainly is reassuring that the pilots are trained in defending themselves. I’m still not convinced they can’t possibly be subdued when they leave the cockpit to go to the bathroom.
The problem with your synopsis, however, would make for the same argument that cops shouldn’t be armed (because the bad guy might get his gun). And though that sometimes does happen, in a dangerous situation it’s far better to be armed and have that minute’ risk than to not be armed at all.
If the weapon absolutely MUST remain inside the cockpit one alternative that I might find acceptable could be to have the pistol locked on a permanent wall bracket inside the cockpit in the same manner that shotguns are locked on a bracket inside police squad cars. That way the pilots aren’t screwing around taking it on and off and such, and would only remove it in case of emergency. It would be locked via a combo lock, not a key which terrorists could get if they overpowered them.
Another way would be to have a small gun locker, the same type that cops use to lock up their weapon when going into the lock up area of the station or jail. They make us take our entire duty belt off and put it in there. The weapon remains in the holster with the trigger/trigger guard covered.
I’d rather the pilots be carrying at all times though, and the hell with this Mickey Mouse shit.
I guess I have seen THESE before, I just never saw one with the lock on. If you look up the instructions that come with the holster they say “Do not use trigger lock with loaded handgun as accidental discharge may result.” Duh.
Who would think that was a good idea? This is so obviously stupid.
Poor analogy - cops go to where the trouble is, ergo they need to bring their armaments with them; the pilots are essentially defending a secured location, and so the weaponry need not travel. Heck, it could be permanently mounted to a tripod bolted to the floor and be essentially as effective in is purpose (aside from being horribly in the way and inconvenient for use.)
Either of these solutions sounds fine to me.
You are entitled to your opinion. I’d just want to keep the chances of a terrorist taking a gun from the pilot as low as possible, while hopefully reducing the chance of the pilot shooting holes in the cockpit himself a bit too.
Holy fucking shit. :eek:
It’s completely clear that this is pretty much entirely the TSA’s fault now. I should have figured, I suppose, but this is really beyond the pale, even for them. I honestly cannot believe anyone thought this could be a good idea. A combination padlock through the trigger guard of a loaded firearm that is installed and removed multiple times during a flight?!?!
Why do they need a padlock in the first place? Don’t they have some kind of locker they can put the gun in? I sure hope they don’t use the padlock while carrying; in addition to recklessly increasing the possibility of an accidental discharge, it would make the gun completely fucking useless in an emergency. “Terrorists breaking into the cockpit? Uh-oh! Let me just, uh, fiddle with my combination lock here…”
I second pkbites’s suggestion; just keep the gun in a decent retention holster, and remove the belt/holster completely when the pilot leaves the cockpit. That way the gun stays loaded and ready, but the trigger is never exposed or fucked with until there is a need to use it.
My thoughts exactly
Which is why I retract my past post blaming the pilot. This thing is just an accident waiting to happen.
Overall I’d rather they just keep it on, concealed. Proper weapon retention training minutes’ worries of terrorists getting it away from them.
But if theres no chance of that, do what we have to do here. When I have to transport someone to the county jail, there are small lockers in the sally port area.
You do not take your firearm out of it’s holster. You put your entire duty belt in the locker. Pepper spray, baton, extra mags, firearm, everything stays on the belt. No body has ever had an accidental discharge doing this.
If all these pilots have is a holster on a regular pants belt, undo the belt, slide the holster off the belt, and into the gun safe. Firearm remains inside the holster at all times.
There are also service and high rise holsters with passive retention systems that make it very difficult for anyone but the wearer to draw the weapon. It would, however, be difficult to draw from such a gun from a seated position, I think. Alternatively, the firearm could be worn in a paddle holster that can be removed as a unit and locked up. There is no reason for the pilot to be handling the unsecured weapon, or a weapon with a lock through the trigger guard during flight.
Agreed. If there is a weapon on the flight deck, it needs to be secured, either to a bulkhead, or on the pilot at all times in some kind of high retention crossdraw holster.
However, I remain unpersuaded that it substantially improves security at all as opposed to simply securing the flight deck against intrusion.
Stranger
Well, of course we keep the door locked most of the time too. This is just to avoid trying to talk the pilots into using chamber pots. (Are there any other circumstances during which the door is opened while in flight?)
checking on problems with the A/C.
What won’t they think of next?. There’s an adapter for women, too.
Crossdraw? No need for that. Unless the individual pilot feels more comfortable drawing that way. I can easily draw my pistol while sitting in the drivers seat, and I’m a southpaw.
If this is such a problem, the front seat of every plane should have a trained and armed guard in a turret facing passengers. He should have mace and non lethal weapons.
Its hard enough to keep the pilots sober when they drive the plane.