# Floor fight brewing at the GOP convention? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 27, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858 "2012-08-27T21:04:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/1 "2012-08-27T21:04:18Z")
While looking at a couple of conservative blogs to find reaction over something I read about, I found [this story](http://michellemalkin.com/2012/08/27/floor-fight-grass-roots-activists-battle-attempt-to-rig-gop-convention-delegate-rules/#comments) on one of them. According to this story, if I’m reading it right, there have been some “backroom deals” (as spun by those opposed to what came out of said deals) to give future Republican campaigns more power over delegates, which apparently has many of those delegates of all stripes quite pissed off. Are these rules as bad as their detractors claim? Whence did these rules changes come from in the first place, and what effect will they have on future Presidential campaigns if they stay? Will there really be the kind of rebellion said detractors (and, doubtlessly, Democrats) hope for? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/2 "2012-08-27T21:18:26Z")
It’s in retaliation for Ron Paul, whose supporters played by the rules and gathered enough delegates to mount a challenge against Mitt, despite his poor showing in the primaries. The Republican base wants to make sure that sort of thing never happens again. They also changed the nomination of Mitt to today to get it out of the national spotlight just in case Ron Paul supporters tried to raise a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/3 "2012-08-27T21:30:04Z")
Sounds like the .00001% are mad that once they’d bought the primaries, they still had to pay extra for a Ron Paul extraction. Loved this quote in the comments: > [@](#): > > ``` > “On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.” > > “Odd,” said Arthur, “I thought you said it was a democracy.” > > “I did,” said Ford. “It is.” > > “So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t the people get rid of the lizards?” > > “It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.” > > “You mean they actually vote for the lizards?” > > “Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.” > > “But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?” > > “Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, “the wrong lizard might get in.” > - Douglas Adams “So Long and Thanks for all the Fish > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/4 "2012-08-28T01:35:21Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > It’s in retaliation for Ron Paul, whose supporters played by the rules and gathered enough delegates to mount a challenge against Mitt, despite his poor showing in the primaries. The Republican base wants to make sure that sort of thing never happens again. > They also changed the nomination of Mitt to today to get it out of the national spotlight just in case Ron Paul supporters tried to raise a challenge. And there’s the Republican candidate in a nutshell! Don’t like the rules, just ignore them. The GOP wants to elect the new Tricky Dick, only without the actual experience, talent, or charisma of the original. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/5 "2012-08-28T02:20:36Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > They also changed the nomination of Mitt to today to get it out of the national spotlight just in case Ron Paul supporters tried to raise a challenge. The roll call has been [moved to Tuesday.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/26/new-gop-convention-schedule-released/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/6 "2012-08-28T17:51:33Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > **Floor fight brewing at the GOP convention?** [Apparently averted.](http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2012/08/republicans-reach-rules-change-deal-to-avert-floor-fight/) > [@](#): > > Republican leaders moved Monday to quell an uprising by Texans and Ron Paul supporters that threatened to steal the spotlight from GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney and expose rifts in the party right as its nominating convention got under way. > > Under a compromise reached late Monday, Romney supporters and GOP leaders agreed to back down from a proposed rule change that effectively would have allowed presidential nominees to choose what delegates represent them at national conventions. > > The proposed change was aimed at muting the power of insurgent candidates such as Ron Paul but prompted an uproar from Texas Republicans, who select their delegates through successive votes in conventions at precincts, then districts and finally statewide. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/7 "2012-08-28T18:04:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Apparently averted.](http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2012/08/republicans-reach-rules-change-deal-to-avert-floor-fight/) Although taking a look at the updates in my OP’s link, there are some (many?) delegates who are not placated. Whether they are representative of enough to raise a fuss… We’ll see, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/8 "2012-08-28T18:37:21Z")
Please, these are Republicans. Every vote will be unanimous, they all agree on every issue, and all their children are above average. About the only thing they could potentially fight about would be whether to refer to Obama as Satan or Lucifer. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/9 "2012-08-28T19:28:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Please, these are Republicans. Every vote will be unanimous, they all agree on every issue, and all their children are above average. Except possibly for that last part, how does this make them different from Democrats? IIRC, the last time there was a serious split at a DNC over the platform (1980), they changed the votes from roll calls to voice votes and glossed over any concerns that the side declared the winner might not have had the most votes. Besides - the roll call for nominating the President won’t be unanimous as there are too many delegates pledged to other candidates, and pretty much the whole point of the roll call is to allow each state’s delegation to speak, so they’re not going to have Romney nominated by acclimation. (Ryan, on the other hand, will be by acclamation - I can’t remember if the vote is called for by the chair, or they start another roll call, but this time Alabama is allowed to yield to another state (presumably, Wisconsin), which in turn asks for nomination by acclamation; I think one party does it one way, and the other party does it the other way.) Of course, _after_ the roll call, then there will be a voice vote (which always passes) to make Romney the “unanimous” nominee, but again, the Democrats do this as well. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/10 "2012-08-28T20:46:20Z")
Just heard that 6 states have gotten together to bring Paul’s name to the floor and Main is still being blocked from the convention unless they sign a paper to support Romney. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/11 "2012-08-28T21:29:22Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > Just heard that 6 states have gotten together to bring Paul’s name to the floor and Main is still being blocked from the convention unless they sign a paper to support Romney. Do you have a cite? Previous claims about how Paul had the pre-requisite six states to be nominated from the floor but was being held by nefarious GOP tactics haven’t held up, so I’m kind of skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/12 "2012-08-28T22:20:19Z")
The news came to me from the local radio station by a woman whose husband was on the floor as one of the Alaska delegates. But now, reading the headlines, it seems like it was just brushed under the table like most of the primaries. It’s too bad, it could have really gotten interesting. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/13 "2012-08-29T01:21:41Z")
From the [NYT](http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/the-ron-paul-revolt/?smid=tw-share): > [@](#): > > Delegates from Nevada tried to nominate Mr. Paul from the floor, submitting petitions from their own state as well as Minnesota, Maine, Iowa, Oregon, Alaska and the Virgin Islands. That should have done the trick: Rules require signatures from just five states. But the party changed the rules on the spot. Henceforth, delegates must gather petitions from eight states. Las Vegas [Sun](http://m.lvsun.com/news/2012/aug/28/paul-gets-needed-petitions-have-his-name-added-rnc/) > [@](#): > > Paul supporters, lead by Nevada delegate Wayne Terhune, succeeded in putting together petitions from six states to put Paul’s name up for nomination. But earlier this week, the Romney campaign won a critical rules change requiring eight states to put a candidate up for nomination. > At the last moment, Paul supporters handed the petitions to the convention secretary. Then, the convention voted to adopt the eight-state rule, crushing the Paul effort. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/14 "2012-08-29T01:33:04Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > From the [NYT](http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/the-ron-paul-revolt/?smid=tw-share): > > Las Vegas [Sun](http://m.lvsun.com/news/2012/aug/28/paul-gets-needed-petitions-have-his-name-added-rnc/) So? Are they gonna start a floor fight over **that?** ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/15 "2012-08-29T01:40:35Z")
I thought the bylaws said that any changes they made now couldn’t be implemented until the next convention? I have heard that 2 States were barred from the convention and that would have given them the eight needed any truth to this? This whole thing seems pretty heavy handed. It seems to me that they might have been better off dealing with the schism now and trying to pull the constitutionalists back under the fold during this election, than possibly alienating a whole contingent of supporters that could bite them in the ass 4 years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/16 "2012-08-29T01:41:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So? Are they gonna start a floor fight over **that?** Probably not. But I said it above: This sort of manuever tells you what you need to know about the GOP and the people in charge of it (including Romney). Rules (and maybe laws?) that inconvenience them can be overruled, changed, or ignored. For a party that hates evolutionary theory, they sure do believe in survival of the fittest. I mean, fuck the women and children, and the Devil take the hindmost is their creed. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/17 "2012-08-29T02:14:38Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Probably not. But I said it above: > This sort of manuever tells you what you need to know about the GOP and the people in charge of it (including Romney). Rules (and maybe laws?) that inconvenience them can be overruled, changed, or ignored. For a party that hates evolutionary theory, they sure do believe in survival of the fittest. I mean, fuck the women and children, and the Devil take the hindmost is their creed. Wasn’t the point of the primaries to determine who the nominee would be? I don’t know the particulars of how the GOP runs their delegation and nomination, but on first blush it seems like the pro-Ron Paul people are the ones trying to override the will of the voters in the primaries, here. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/18 "2012-08-29T02:16:15Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Probably not. But I said it above: > This sort of manuever tells you what you need to know about the GOP and the people in charge of it (including Romney). Rules (and maybe laws?) that inconvenience them can be overruled, changed, or ignored. I guess. But my understanding is that the rules are set by the delegates. Romney has the vast majority of delegates, so the rules are more or less what he says they are. Traditionally there was six states needed to be nominated, but I don’t think they’re bound to that. So I’m not sure there’s really an ethical problem there. So far as I can tell, Romney’s still playing by the rules. If Ron Paul had more delegate, he could change the rules to suit himself. He doesn’t, so he’s boned. (as a practical matter, it seems kinda dumb for the Romney campaign not to let Paul just get nominated so he can make a speech and then get defeated on the first ballot. Paul seems enough of a team player that, while I doubt he’d endorse Romney’s foreign policy or anything, he’d go ahead and endorse Romney’s candidacy and then the GOP can nominate Romney and pretend to be one big happy family with the Paulistas out there. Instead, everyones gonna go to bed angry). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/19 "2012-08-29T02:21:08Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > (as a practical matter, it seems kinda dumb for the Romney campaign not to let Paul just get nominated so he can make a speech and then get defeated on the first ballot. Paul seems enough of a team player that, while I doubt he’d endorse Romney’s foreign policy or anything, he’d go ahead and endorse Romney’s candidacy and then the GOP can nominate Romney and pretend to be one big happy family with the Paulistas out there. Instead, everyones gonna go to bed angry). Oh, okay, this makes more sense. Yep, it’s stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858/20 "2012-08-29T02:36:39Z")
I was disturbed at reports of the machinations and violence that sidelined Ron Paul in [Louisiana](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650975&page=2), though I frankly couldn’t work out what happened. But this seems ok to me. There comes a time when you simply have to sweep the nutters under the rug and get everyone on the same page. It’s gonna be Romney Uber Alles, and anybody who doesn’t like it can make an appointment with the fishes. [Boehner](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/28/ron-paul-republican-convention_n_1837556.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular) got this one right: On Tuesday afternoon, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) called for a full delegation vote on the rules, including the ones the Paul backers opposed. The voice vote of ayes and nays were equal in volume, but Boehner immediately gave it to the ayes, leading to loud boos and shouts from Paul supporters. Now look, that’s not the way a democratic organization should work. But the Republican Dons understand that rules are for rubes: if a Leader doesn’t like the emerging outcome, just modify the regulations mid-game. Ron Paul was told that he could speak if his remarks were filtered by the RNC overlords and he would endorse Romney unreservedly. Something like that could really alienate his mailing list, so turned the GOP down. That’s an appropriate response from a competing harvester. I approve. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floor-fight-brewing-at-the-gop-convention/632858.md?page=2)