# Florida: 5 Teens Mock, Don't Help Drowning Man **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811 "2017-07-21T17:00:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/21 "2017-07-21T19:47:36Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t like the idea of laws requiring assistance. Depends what you mean by assistance. I wouldn’t support a law that required them to go into the pond. I probably could be convinced to support a law requiring a level of assistance that posed no danger and trivial inconvenience to the person concerned. In this case, that might mean requiring someone with a cellphone to call 911. What the greatest possible harm that the person might suffer as a result? There wouldn’t even be overage charges on their cellphone plan, because emergency calls are free. When the burden is so insignificant, i could see a justification for requiring at least this sort of minimal level of assistance. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/22 "2017-07-21T20:02:42Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Depends what you mean by assistance. I wouldn’t support a law that required them to go into the pond. I probably could be convinced to support a law requiring a level of assistance that posed no danger and trivial inconvenience to the person concerned. In this case, that might mean requiring someone with a cellphone to call 911. > > What the greatest possible harm that the person might suffer as a result? There wouldn’t even be overage charges on their cellphone plan, because emergency calls are free. When the burden is so insignificant, i could see a justification for requiring at least this sort of minimal level of assistance. The problem is being charged with a crime when you didn’t know someone needed assistance or had legitimate reason not to assist someone. And in general i don’t like the idea of the government forcing people to act. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/23 "2017-07-21T20:08:54Z")
Wait for the lawsuits that are sure to come. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/24 "2017-07-21T20:13:22Z")
Anyone else remember the case of [David Cash, Jr](http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/david-cash)? He was a UC Berkeley student who was visiting a Nevada casino with a friend, [Jeremy Strohmeyer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Strohmeyer). Cash saw Strohmeyer molesting a seven-year-old girl in a restroom stall but did nothing. He also did nothing after Strohmeyer admitted murdering the girl. Plenty of people wanted Cash charged with something, but at the time, it was not a crime to witness a crime and not do anything. There was also a push to get him expelled from UC Berkeley, but again, because no crime was committed, this didn’t happen either. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/25 "2017-07-21T20:19:18Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The problem is being charged with a crime when you didn’t know someone needed assistance or had legitimate reason not to assist someone. And in general i don’t like the idea of the government forcing people to act. Well, if you didn’t know, then you wouldn’t call 911. Again, I think these laws require proof that the person was there, knew about the incident, and still did nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/26 "2017-07-21T20:30:27Z")
Lets hope that the shame follows them throughout their lives. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/27 "2017-07-21T20:42:49Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Well, if you didn’t know, then you wouldn’t call 911. Again, I think these laws require proof that the person was there, knew about the incident, and still did nothing. What would the proof be? The victim could be saying he saw you there and you did nothing when you didn’t even know. Do you really want to have to prove you didn’t know something? I’m not arguing anyone would be morally right not to assist in any way they could, I’m just against making a law requiring it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/28 "2017-07-21T20:47:49Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What would the proof be? You apply the same standard that you apply to any other criminal conviction: beyond a reasonable doubt. You present the evidence you have, and allow the jury to consider whether the person knew what was happening and refused to call for assistance. In a case like this, the video recorded by the kids in question would form part of the evidence that the jury would consider in determining whether those kids knew that the guy was in trouble and refused to act. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/29 "2017-07-21T20:51:35Z")
Inability to feel empathy, especially for folks who don’t “look like you” is rapidly becoming a defining characteristic of our society. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/30 "2017-07-21T20:55:41Z")
Typical of the social media generation. More concerned with posting shit to Fakebook than actually being human. God help this country ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/31 "2017-07-21T21:02:33Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Inability to feel empathy, especially for folks who don’t “look like you” is rapidly becoming a defining characteristic of our society. “Don’t look like you” meaning what? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/32 "2017-07-21T21:19:35Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Typical of the social media generation. More concerned with posting shit to Fakebook than actually being human. God help this country [A group of high school students rescue 7 people trapped in a car.](http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-05-13/news/fl-prom-crash-rescue-20130513_1_prom-flipped-van-baby) [Members of a high school baseball team lift a car pinning a fellow student.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/09/baseball-team-lifts-car-saves-life_n_3248973.html) [A teenager hides a rape victim from her attacker.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/michigan-hero-teen-hides-rape-victim-attacker/story?id=18272032) [A teenager pulls a drowning kid out of a frozen pond.](http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/our-communities/herald/Teen-hero-didnt-think-twice-before-saving-a-life-117601199.html) And Dewey Finn has already shared the details of David Cash which goes to show that bravery is not bound by age cohorts and neither is cowardice. It is our character that determines our capabilities in times of stress, not whether we have a goddamn Snapchat account. Go eat a bag of dicks. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/33 "2017-07-21T21:20:01Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Most of us do dumb and even callous things when we are young. I never watch someone die while mocking them and and refusing to help. Or anything anywhere near on that level. Maybe your youth was spent differently from mine. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/34 "2017-07-21T21:21:16Z")
I still don’t get these arguments. You see something that everyone would agree was morally wrong and leads to the death of a human being, but then you say there shouldn’t be a law about it. You’ll come up with these potential problems with such a law, but you then just throw out the whole idea of a law, instead of trying to tailor a new law to fit the issue. First off, we can limit the law to death or grave bodily injury, which helps. We can also require some evidence of depravity rather than merely not noticing or being mistaken. We can make the bar fairly high, so that prosecutors won’t bother except in the worst of cases. There’s no freedom issue here, so it’s all a good thing. Does anyone know if there can at least be a winnable wrongful death suit here, from the family? Is this a public location? [I see they are at least trying to get them for the crime of not reporting a death.](http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/crime/2017/07/21/cocoa-police-chief-pursuing-charges-against-teens-accused-filming-drowning-man/500111001/) I sure hope the prosecution pursues this, and that they are convicted and get the harshest penalty they can give. The last thing we can do is let people think this sort of depraved indifference is acceptable. At least the people on 4chan are usually jokers. ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/35 "2017-07-21T21:36:21Z")
The cackling at that final cry for help was absolutely chilling. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/36 "2017-07-21T21:41:38Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Lets hope that the shame follows them throughout their lives. I don’t think shame is a feeling they are capable of. > [@HeweyLogan](#): > > “Don’t look like you” meaning what? Probably means that because the teens were obviously African Americans…but so was the guy that drowned. Also, even if one of these turdbuckets had dialed 911 the man still would have drowned. It didn’t take him long. I often wonder how people drown in calm water and don’t know at a minimum how to dog paddle or just slowly tread water. I assume panic, alcohol, drugs and mental disability are common factors, but still. Treading water is so damn easy! ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/37 "2017-07-21T21:43:39Z")
My understanding is the man used a cane to get around so he probably didn’t have the requisite mobility. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/38 "2017-07-21T21:50:51Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Inability to feel empathy, especially for folks who don’t “look like you” is rapidly becoming a defining characteristic of our society. You may be right but I don’t think your point applies here. The guy who died was an [African American](https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/cocoa-florida-jamel-dunn-drowning-recorded-group-teens-police/) too ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/39 "2017-07-21T21:55:10Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > [A group of high school students rescue 7 people trapped in a car.](http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-05-13/news/fl-prom-crash-rescue-20130513_1_prom-flipped-van-baby) > > [Members of a high school baseball team lift a car pinning a fellow student.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/09/baseball-team-lifts-car-saves-life_n_3248973.html) > > [A teenager hides a rape victim from her attacker.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/michigan-hero-teen-hides-rape-victim-attacker/story?id=18272032) > > [A teenager pulls a drowning kid out of a frozen pond.](http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/our-communities/herald/Teen-hero-didnt-think-twice-before-saving-a-life-117601199.html) > > And Dewey Finn has already shared the details of David Cash which goes to show that bravery is not bound by age cohorts and neither is cowardice. It is our character that determines our capabilities in times of stress, not whether we have a goddamn Snapchat account. Go eat a bag of dicks. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/40 "2017-07-21T21:56:33Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > My understanding is the man used a cane to get around so he probably didn’t have the requisite mobility. True, but once you’re in water above where you can stand all the weight is off your legs. All you need to do is make small, slow circles with your arms and legs and you can keep your head above water. Maybe he just couldn’t do that, didn’t think of it in his panic, or simply didn’t know how. I think swimming lessons for at least a beginner should be mandatory for everyone in school. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811.md?page=3)