# Florida: 5 Teens Mock, Don't Help Drowning Man **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811 "2017-07-21T17:00:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/101 "2017-07-23T20:37:11Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > I’m also kind of reminded of Kitty Genovese… The popular account of the bystander apathy during the Genovese murder was Fake News. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/102 "2017-07-23T21:21:23Z")
This NYT article disagrees with you. > **[Winston Moseley, Who Killed Kitty Genovese, Dies in Prison at 81 (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html)** > > Ms. Genovese’s 1964 murder in New York, while neighbors failed to act on her cries for help, came to symbolize urban apathy in America. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/103 "2017-07-23T21:29:44Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > This NYT article disagrees with you. > > [https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html) Um, no it does not. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/104 "2017-07-23T21:36:15Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > This NYT article disagrees with you. > > [https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-81-killer-of-kitty-genovese-dies-in-prison.html) Huh? From your article: > [@](#): > > While there was no question that the attack occurred, and that some neighbors ignored cries for help, the portrayal of 38 witnesses as fully aware and unresponsive was erroneous. The article grossly exaggerated the number of witnesses and what they had perceived. None saw the attack in its entirety. Only a few had glimpsed parts of it, or recognized the cries for help. Many thought they had heard lovers or drunks quarreling. There were two attacks, not three. And afterward, two people did call the police. A 70-year-old woman ventured out and cradled the dying victim in her arms until they arrived. Ms. Genovese died on the way to a hospital. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/105 "2017-07-23T21:45:43Z")
> [@Philliam](#): > > Apropos, I hope. As a Hydrographic Surveyor back in the day, I did a pipelay/dredge project in Southeast Asia. The Barge Superintendent had a little mutt dog named ‘Scrapiron’ that hung out mostly in the tower and was the barge mascot. On the way back to port at the end of the project the Barge Engineer (who was much younger and didn’t like the Super.) took the poor dog and tossed him overboard. Some folks knew what happened and word started to filter out through ‘The Oil Patch’. Never worked with or met the guy again but I hope his new nickname of “Dog-Killer Fields” followed him forever. 35 years later it still hurts to remember that useless bastard. You’re right. THAT is the act of a sociopath. And anyone who knew what happened and didn’t tell the pilot to turn about or grab a lifeboat to go after him was a total @$$#0le. Because the little dog was completely innocent and could have been saved. Y’all, please don’t misunderstand me. If those kids could actually have helped, and didn’t, I’d be all over this, believe me. But they couldn’t. They didn’t handle it well, but they were kids, and high, and I don’t agree with pathologizing and criminalizing\* that. When the man went under and didn’t come back, you could hear their pain. \*Except that they were high, and should be punished for the drug use. Oh, and I am Celtling’s Mother, not her Father. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/106 "2017-07-23T21:58:34Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > If those kids could actually have helped, and didn’t, I’d be all over this, believe me. But they couldn’t. They didn’t handle it well, but they were kids, and high, and I don’t agree with pathologizing and criminalizing\* that. How do you explain their having posted the video online? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/107 "2017-07-23T22:50:17Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Leave it to Ann “Woe is Me, a Persecuted White Woman” Cunter to turn a tragedy into a racial issue: > > [https://twitter.com/anncoulter/status/888559186161938432](https://twitter.com/anncoulter/status/888559186161938432) > > 1. They haven’t been charged with a crime? > 2. They might be minors? > > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You’re probably better off not reading the comment section of said posted video . . . I think oftentimes people may take false comfort in thinking the tail is wagging the dog. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/108 "2017-07-23T23:12:15Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Yeah, I’d say [the bystander effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect) was definitely involved, aggravated by the fact that they were kids and they were out there getting high. The part where one kid was complaining about his friend bogarting the blunt after the victim’s head went under was particularly egregious. Didn’t even harsh their buzz. I’ve always been suspicious about the bystander effect. I’ve seen the opposite far too many times for me to think it relates to my reality, which is inner city and the kind of place that you’d expect it to happen. It’s also not relevant here since they were a group of people, not multiple disconnected people who might have thought someone else was helping. Unlike others, I don’t want them to suffer in the court of the internet via notoriety about what they did because the results of that can be far more extreme than what they did merits. Failing to report a death is relevant though, particularly since it exacerbated the suffering of those the deceased left behind and made it more difficult to assess his cause of death. They knew or at least thought they knew that he’d died and posted their video on social media so even if they’d been high enough to forget it at first they would have had quite a lot of reminders. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/109 "2017-07-23T23:18:00Z")
Forgive me if this has already been addressed, I just didn’t want to wade thru all the pages of this thread to find out: Why was this man in the water in the first place? Has that been determined? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/110 "2017-07-23T23:41:22Z")
Ambivalid: He had gotten into an argument with his girlfriend. One possibility is that he was feeling suicidal so walked into the pond, then realized he didn’t want to die–but it was too late. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/111 "2017-07-23T23:43:15Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Ambivalid: He had gotten into an argument with his girlfriend. One possibility is that he was feeling suicidal so walked into the pond, then realized he didn’t want to die–but it was too late. Right now, that’s pure speculation, no? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/112 "2017-07-24T00:01:20Z")
WTF? A while ago, I spent all day to post a short video of my dogs playing on the lawn, and YouTube deleted it within an hour or so. I think it got 3 views. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/113 "2017-07-24T00:05:14Z")
Why was it removed at all if it was just dogs on the lawn? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/114 "2017-07-24T00:06:39Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I’ve always been suspicious about the bystander effect. I’ve seen the opposite far too many times for me to think it relates to my reality, which is inner city and the kind of place that you’d expect it to happen. I think perhaps an important element of the bystander effect may be peer pressure. To take an extreme example, if you look at something like Nazi Germany, there were plenty of people who knew it was wrong but went along with it out of fear or retribution or social censure. General diffusion of responsibility may be a real thing when it comes to roommates washing the dishes, but I think it’s a weaker influence in cases of life or death. Just speculation on my part. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/115 "2017-07-24T00:20:05Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, believe me. I’m being nice. I’m trying my best to hold this in, in an effort to get you to listen. I don’t believe you. You’re not being nice. You are failing to hold it in. No one wants to listen to you. Go fuck a cactus. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/116 "2017-07-24T02:22:19Z")
Just wondering. If the kids _had_ called 911, and the rescue squad got there too late to help, but the kids spent that time before the arrival of the squad mocking and laughing about what was happening, would that change your opinion of them in any way? Because that sounds like something I would do. Because the guy in the pond _ **was** _ a dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/117 "2017-07-24T04:22:58Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Just wondering. If the kids _had_ called 911, and the rescue squad got there too late to help, but the kids spent that time before the arrival of the squad mocking and laughing about what was happening, would that change your opinion of them in any way? > > Because that sounds like something I would do. Because the guy in the pond _ **was** _ a dumbass. The guy in the pond was a human being and deserved any and all help possible to save his life. Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/118 "2017-07-24T04:43:30Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I don’t believe you. You’re not being nice. You are failing to hold it in. No one wants to listen to you. Go fuck a cactus. If I saw big T fucking a cactus I would probably call 911, I definitely wouldn’t try to intervene on my own though. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/119 "2017-07-24T05:10:46Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > If I saw big T fucking a cactus I would probably call 911, I definitely wouldn’t try to intervene on my own though. Are you a psychopath? Are you _completely_ lacking empathy for the suffering of that cactus? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811/120 "2017-07-24T07:03:20Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > You’re right. THAT is the act of a sociopath. And anyone who knew what happened and didn’t tell the pilot to turn about or grab a lifeboat to go after him was a total @$$#0le. Because the little dog was completely innocent and could have been saved. > > Y’all, please don’t misunderstand me. If those kids could actually have helped, and didn’t, I’d be all over this, believe me. But they couldn’t. They didn’t handle it well, but they were kids, and high, and I don’t agree with pathologizing and criminalizing\* that. When the man went under and didn’t come back, you could hear their pain. > > \*Except that they were high, and should be punished for the drug use. > > Oh, and I am Celtling’s Mother, not her Father. So in your world, smoking weed is worse than watching and giggling at a man drowning? :dubious: I understand you just fine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-5-teens-mock-dont-help-drowning-man/791811.md?page=7)