# Florida agents raid home of fired public health agent who refused to manipulate COVID data **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2020, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523 "2020-12-08T00:47:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/182 "2021-01-11T22:19:09Z")
For some of us, there is no choice. My career takes me to interesting places and I work with interesting people. Shove your sanctimony up your ass, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/183 "2021-01-11T22:21:26Z")
Yes, exactly. I said nothing about her Covid claims which I believe, but I don’t want to get my ass bit again because of a person with little control. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/184 "2021-01-11T22:24:14Z")
Aren’t you a lighting guy? Are criminals a large part of that job where you are? My BIL was a (mostly) off-Broadway producer and I can’t say I ever heard stories about all the desperados on the lighting crew. Must be that gosh darn sheltered life again ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/185 "2021-01-11T23:21:56Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > > [@CairoCarol](#): > > > > I do get the sense we may be missing some context (NOT justification). Believe me, I’m not victim-blaming here. Merely pointing out the possibility that, as much as we would like our heroes to be flawless creatures, unmistakably wronged without the slightest hint of nuance, the real world rarely delivers such perfection. Maybe she was a self-indulgent, argumentative, arrogant person who didn’t care if she gave her bosses a headache, and didn’t think the rules applied to her. > > I think @CairoCarol was a bit prescient here. Again, not saying “SHE’S GUILTY!!!” but allowing for the possibility that she brought this trouble on herself not because she stood up for what’s right, but because she’s the kind of person that causes trouble. > > That doesn’t minimize how screwed up the Florida law is, or how heavy-handed the search was, not at all. But really, there doesn’t seem to be any willingness to accept the possibility that she was at least partially in the wrong here. No, the problem was that you called her a liar based on a very stupid argument. It involved your own definition of a word even though we showed you that other people use it the way she used it. It involved claiming that she lied about what was was on the tape, when multiple people showed you that her claim was valid. I showed you that she did point the gun at people, and used normal language to convey that. Even though that line of attack was completely demolished, you kept insisting upon it. I had hoped that, since this was a while back, you’d admit your mistake now that you had a cooler head. Instead, you’re engaging in a strawman, making up an argument no one made. I don’t have a clue if she put out that email or not. The thing is, I don’t think it matters, because in no way would it justify the police response. The response to someone misusing an email account login once is just to change the email login so they can’t use it. It’s to think “oh, my bad. We should have fixed that.” Maybe you could argue some sort of fine. But it’s not doing a raid (yes, that is the term most normal people use) and taking her computers, while aiming guns at places and/or people they didn’t plan to actually shoot. You don’t point guns except if you plan to shoot. This new information? Maybe she did cyberstalk. So what? It has no bearing on this particular case. It’s just something to get people who think with their emotions. It’s also exactly the type of thing that the police due to discredit people in the eyes of the public even though they know it would not be allowed to be stated in a court of law. It all sounds like a fishing expedition: this woman called us out on our **horrible, horrible, horrible act of manipulating COVID-19 data** , so let’s keep going until we can find some law that she broke so we can punish her. Doesn’t matter how little it is–we can use it as an excuse to shut her down! Oh, people are seeing through it? Well, let’s release some info about past crimes. That’ll make 'em back down. No, I’m not going to back down. They falsified COVID-19 data, She was fixing their falsification. And they conveniently found a very minor crime to overreact to try and shut her down. Their actions do not make any sense otherwise. Someone doesn’t have to be a perfect hero for me to side with them. And past situations don’t mean I won’t side with them in future situations. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/186 "2021-01-11T23:42:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, I’m not going to back down. They falsified COVID-19 data, She was fixing their falsification. And they conveniently found a very minor crime to overreact to try and shut her down. Their actions do not make any sense otherwise. So you know this for a fact? Based on what? And yes, she lied. Nobody showed that her claim was valid. She claimed that the video proves that cops pointed guns at her kids which is bullshit. Are you really bringing up this ridiculous argument again? Good grief! 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/187 "2021-01-12T04:19:23Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Are you really bringing up this ridiculous argument again? …says the person who kept making a ridiculous argument over-and-over-and-over again in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/188 "2021-01-12T04:54:52Z")
Ah, the “I know you are but what am I” argument. I don’t come to SDMB to have elementary school level discussions. I may have to bow out of this thread in the future because for some reason there are people I actually respect acting like children here. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/189 "2021-01-12T05:05:30Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I may have to bow out of this thread in the future because for some reason We call that _flouncing_ here. Just so you know. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/190 "2021-01-12T05:09:44Z")
I am legitimately sad that I am unable to discuss the actual merits of the case in this thread. People are acting like Trumpists here. I know it’s the Pit, but for fuck’s sake. I’ve actually had decent conversations here in the past. I feel like I’ve tried to make a cogent argument and been rebutted with “you’re a poopy head”. A few people are reasonable, I enjoyed debating with @puzzlegal and a few others but some of the people here are being tendentious asshats, and these are people who I normally like to interact with. It’s not flouncing, it’s disappointment. I’m not even really angry, just tired. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/191 "2021-01-12T12:35:03Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I don’t want to get my ass bit again because of a person with little control. Ahhh, you’re the one they call scar-ass, right? ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/192 "2021-01-12T18:26:56Z")
Scar-ass, dumbass, asshat - even nice ass a few times! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/193 "2021-01-12T19:42:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > They falsified COVID-19 data Your honor, assuming facts not in evidence. Florida _allegedly_ falsified COVID-19 data. Florida _allegedly_ fired Mrs. Jones for pushing back against that. Mrs. Jones _allegedly_ sent an unauthorized message over an emergency system. As of yet totally irrelevant and immaterial, she is _alleged_ to have previously cyberstalked her ex-partner. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/194 "2021-01-13T14:31:36Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Your honor, assuming facts not in evidence. Florida _allegedly_ falsified COVID-19 data. Florida _allegedly_ fired Mrs. Jones for pushing back against that. Mrs. Jones _allegedly_ sent an unauthorized message over an emergency system. As of yet totally irrelevant and immaterial, she is _alleged_ to have previously cyberstalked her ex-partner. Not “totally irrelevant and immaterial”. Because the alternative version of events (backed up by more evidence than her claim, as linked earlier in this thread) is that she wasn’t fired for any whistleblowing activity but for being insubordinate and cantankerous. Her having been a cyberstalker fits that profile well. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/195 "2021-01-13T14:49:35Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > {…} Her having been a cyberstalker fits that profile well. Right? Isn’t that the first thing on the FBI’s ‘Stay Safe on The Internet’ list ‘Stay away from the insubordinate and cantankerous, they cyberstalk!’ Damn, you people type this … pure bullshit and still expect to be taken seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/196 "2021-01-13T19:52:22Z")
Flip it around **crowmanyclouds** , let’s say that the first you ever heard of Jones was that she was accused of cyberstalking, THEN you hear that she was also fired for allegedly being insubordinate while engaged in a high-profile public-facing project, but she screams “whistle-blower retaliation”. You’re saying that your evaluation of the truthfulness of this claim _wouldn’t be influenced at all_ by the previous cyberstalking allegations? I would note that (as far as I can tell), she has offered exactly ZERO proof that she was ordered to change the numbers and, as discussed above, the numbers are still being published. Now, if somebody can show that the numbers **are** being manipulated, that changes things, but where’s that evidence? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/197 "2021-01-13T19:59:23Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > {…} You’re saying that your evaluation of the truthfulness of this claim _wouldn’t be influenced at all_ by the previous cyberstalking allegations? {…} In what universe is the truthfulness of _this claim_ in any way dependent on the accuracy of an allegation of previous, unrelated, conduct? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/198 "2021-01-13T20:11:12Z")
_sigh_ What we have here is an unsupported “she said” claim made by a former employee of the State of Florida. There is not, to my knowledge, ANY objective evidence. There’s her word and the State’s word. That’s it. So. Given that, we have to look at the character of the people involved. Now, DeSantis is known to get…creative with facts from time to time, so there’s a strike against him. Ms. Jones? Well, she apparently has a somewhat troubled past which has involved accusations of cyberstalking, sexual cyber-harassment charge, criminal mischief, trespassing, robbery and contempt of court for violating a domestic violence injunction. Some of which were dropped as part of plea-deals, some of which are still outstanding. You’re right, she could be being truthful, but how saying that the presence of those charges should have no bearing on our evaluation of her character is…well…fucking idiotic is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/199 "2021-01-13T20:23:47Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Not “totally irrelevant and immaterial”. Yes, as of yet any prior allegation of cyberstalking is totally irrelevant and immaterial to the topic at hand: the _raid_. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/200 "2021-01-13T20:28:22Z")
Biul Clinton was accused of rape therefore it’s reasonable to believe he murdered Vince Foster. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/201 "2021-01-13T20:44:55Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > What we have here is an unsupported “she said” claim made by a former employee of the State of Florida. There is not, to my knowledge, ANY objective evidence. There’s her word and the State’s word. That’s it. There’s more than that backing up the State’s version. See [here](https://archive.is/fE7iH) from the AP. (I erred in stating earlier that this had been linked in this thread - it was in a P&E thread on the same subject.) > [@Max\_S](#): > > Yes, as of yet any prior allegation of cyberstalking is totally irrelevant and immaterial to the topic at hand: the _raid_ . It’s impossible to separate the raid from the issue of whether in fact she was a whistleblower or a difficult person generally. FWIW, the raid itself was as hostile as it was because she apparently copped an attitude when the cops showed up at her house. So it’s more of the same. But even in looking at the initial impetus for the raid, there’s a big difference between raiding someone whose “crime” is being a whistleblower and raiding someone who was an all-purpose difficult person who latched onto a whistleblower claim after being fired for insubordination. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523.md?page=11)