# Florida agents raid home of fired public health agent who refused to manipulate COVID data **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2020, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523 "2020-12-08T00:47:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/82 "2020-12-10T06:55:41Z")
“Sunshine is the best disinfectant.” And, yeah, they would have to call it that. @wolfpup: nice. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/83 "2020-12-10T07:59:02Z")
Jones and Filipkowski think they seized all her equipment so they can analyze it and find out who in the agency is still feeding information to her so they can come after them too. More detail, with cite, [in my post in the other thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-police-raid-home-of-former-state-covid-19-data-scientist/927543/12). ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/84 "2020-12-10T17:42:45Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@Joey\_P](#): > > > > You’re in Canada, right? Yes, police having their guns out while enforcing a search warrant, at least while entering the premises, is normal. > > Interesting. > > Here, routinely drawing a weapon for search warrants would be disciplinable. > > The same test is used for drawing a weapon as for discharging it: handguns can only be drawn if there are reasonable grounds to believe it is necessary to prevent loss of life or serious bodily harm. > > Executing a search warrant on a private dwelling house for a non-violent offence wouldn’t meet that test. You have better laws than we have. > [@Senegoid](#): > > Jones and Filipkowski think they seized all her equipment so they can analyze it and find out who in the agency is still feeding information to her so they can come after them too. > > More detail, with cite, [in my post in the other thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-police-raid-home-of-former-state-covid-19-data-scientist/927543/12). Yes, that seems like the likely motive. If I’m not mistaken, she claims she never sent that mass email. If she is telling the truth, it may have been sent with the intention of creating a plausible cause for seizing her equipment. (in what sounds like a raid to me. I mean, I don’t know the technical definition of a “police raid”, but if the police, bearing a warrant, entered my house, waved drawn guns around, and took away some of my stuff, I would certainly feel comfortable describing it as having been raided by the police.) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/85 "2020-12-10T17:45:29Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > I would be surprised if much of the data couldn’t be released on request. We have a public line list which contains the age, gender (m/f), date of onset, county, etc. of every COVID-19 case known to the state. Anyone can download the CSV if you want to look at the raw data. It is updated daily. [https://www.arcgis.com/home/item.html?id=4cc62b3a510949c7a8167f6baa3e069d](https://www.arcgis.com/home/item.html?id=4cc62b3a510949c7a8167f6baa3e069d) ~Max ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/86 "2020-12-10T17:53:46Z")
Seems to me, if such is the case, that any effort on her part to change the data to fit her “biases” would have been futile from the git-go. Which lends credence to the notion that they were eager to stifle an opinion. Which buggers the question of whether “credence” matters any more. Did anyone ever reveal just perzackly what data points she had altered? I would expect such info may come out at her trial. For her crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/87 "2020-12-10T17:57:16Z")
The app she made is, as I understand it, a front-end for visualizing data. So most people don’t look at the spreadsheet, they look at her “dashboard” app which is still maintained by the DoH here: [https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429](https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429) After she was let go she maintained her own “dashboard” app with whatever changes she thought to make, which is still available here: [https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/d2726d6c01c4486181fec2d4373b01fa](https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/d2726d6c01c4486181fec2d4373b01fa) ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/88 "2020-12-10T18:01:23Z")
Just a cursory look, the official DOH dashboard shows total positive residents while Ms. Jones’s COVID Action dashboard shows total positive cases. The official dashboard has blue colors on the map, Ms. Jones’s uses red (scroll down to the bottom for the map). So I assume it was more of a dispute over what stats and layout to present than actual fudging of numbers. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/89 "2020-12-10T18:08:42Z")
I also notice that when Ms. Jones reports total cases for a county, it is sometimes higher than when the DoH reports total cases for a county. But Ms. Jones has a number for each county labelled “Total Cases since March 1”, and this exactly matches the DoH total for each county. More reason for me to believe the issue was _how_ to present data. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/90 "2020-12-10T20:03:54Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > (in what sounds like a raid to me. I mean, I don’t know the technical definition of a “police raid”, but if the police, bearing a warrant, entered my house, waved drawn guns around, and took away some of my stuff, I would certainly feel comfortable describing it as having been raided by the police.) > **[Police raid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_raid)** > > A police raid is an unexpected visit by police or other law enforcement officers with the aim of using the element of surprise to seize evidence or arrest suspects believed to be likely to hide evidence, resist arrest, endanger the public or officers if approached through other means, or simply be elsewhere at another time. Various tactics are used by law enforcement in raids that often vary based on available equipment, situational factors, laws, and police powers. > The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol,... A raid is when police use the element of surprise in order to apprehend someone who is likely to flee, seize evidence before it can be destroyed or hidden, or gain the upper hand in an armed conflict. It is usually characterized by forcing entry into a house and is most often done just before dawn (called a “pre-dawn raid”) as that is the time when people are most likely to be asleep or otherwise vulnerable. What occurred here is the police serving a warrant, they didn’t even enter the home until given permission which reportedly took 20 minutes. Raids are controversial because they are high risk affairs, and more likely to lead to collateral damage (people or property). They are typically reserved for extreme situations. This story was headlined as a raid inaccurately by newsmakers to grab attention. There are multiple reasons to criticize what the police did here. The number of police and gear they carried seemed very excessive, and drawing their guns when not under threat (whether pointing at a person or not) doesn’t look good. But there’s no need to mislabel it to make it seem like something it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/91 "2020-12-10T20:08:15Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > A raid is You defined “police raid”. A police “raid”, literally police making “an entrance into another’s territory for the purpose of seizing goods or valuables”, is totally in line with **puzzlegal** ’s description. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/92 "2020-12-10T20:19:15Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > You defined “police raid”. A police “raid”, literally police making “an entrance into another’s territory for the purpose of seizing goods or valuables”, is totally in line with **puzzlegal** ’s description. > **[Definition of RAID](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/raid)** > > a hostile or predatory incursion; a surprise attack by a small force; a brief foray outside one's usual sphere… See the full definition ## Definition of _raid_ (Entry 1 of 2) 1a **:** a hostile or predatory incursion b **:** a surprise attack by a small force 2a **:** a brief foray outside one’s usual sphere b **:** a sudden invasion by officers of the law c **:** a daring operation against a competitor d **:** the recruiting of personnel (such as faculty, executives, or athletes) from competing organizations 3 **:** the act of mulcting public money 4 **:** an attempt by professional operators to depress stock prices by concerted selling If you want to get pedantic and focus on the word “raid” it still doesn’t work. The word implies that something is done by surprise, and that element of a raid is what makes it controversial. It’s what differentiates a raid from a regular seizure by warrant. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/93 "2020-12-10T20:33:32Z")
I quoted from my American Heritage dictionary listing 3. With regards to Miriam-Webster, it would be closest to 1a. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/94 "2020-12-10T20:34:35Z")
Calling a warrant a “hostile or predatory incursion” is even worse, it sounds like they killed and ate her family. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/95 "2020-12-10T20:37:08Z")
Only one of the many definitions there mention surprise, which implies that it is not necessary. It absolutely fits 1a and 2b of the definitions that you listed. In any case, pretty much _every_ headline I see about this, including on NPR and BBC, refer to it as a raid. Even Fox and Newsmax do so, in case you are thinking that it is a leftist reaction. It’s pretty much you against the entire world on your insistence on using only _your_ narrow definition. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/96 "2020-12-10T20:38:05Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > It’s pretty much you against the entire world on your insistence on using only _your_ narrow definition. Yeah, again, fuck Snopes because they are full of shit right? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/97 "2020-12-10T20:42:17Z")
You mean Snopes who rates the claim as “Mostly True”? They don’t have your back on this either. It does say that the term “connotes” as you say, but does not make the claim, as you do, that it can only be used in that way. And that you would use this as some sort of reason to question her character doesn’t seem to follow. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/98 "2020-12-10T20:53:26Z")
For fuck’s sake, let me repeat it. What Snopes said wasn’t true specifically was the idea that it was a raid. Here, let me help you if you don’t want to scroll up. _ **What’s False** _ _However, police did not forcibly or suddenly enter Jones’ home. She opened the door to the agents after refusing to grant them entry for 20 minutes, according to state officials._ They also are careful to put “raid” in scare quotes in both the title of their article and in the body. > **[Did Florida Police 'Raid' the Home of Fired COVID-19 Scientist Rebekah Jones?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/florida-rebekah-jones-raid/)** > > Jones was controversially fired from her job with the Florida Department of Health in May 2020. And they went on to say… **Those reports were largely accurate, but the description of the incident as a “raid” tended to exaggerate the apparent level of force and surprise involved in the actions of state law enforcement agents.** So, do you still think that I am using only _my_ narrow definition? Or are you done? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/99 "2020-12-10T21:44:02Z")
I had no idea that anyone restricted the use of the word “raid” to acts of surprise. It was a hostile entry. If the police execute a warrant on your house and walk away with your stuff after waving guns around in your house, I’m sure you will feel it was a hostile incursion, too. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/100 "2020-12-10T21:44:36Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Just a cursory look, the official DOH dashboard shows total positive residents while Ms. Jones’s COVID Action dashboard shows total positive cases. I thought I remembered something about that. This is very misleading on the state’s part. The Florida Dept of Health doesn’t count Covid cases of nonresidents, even though they are cases occurring in the state of Florida. Moreover, Florida has a high number of nonresidents present in the state due to tourism and people who live in the state seasonally, but maintain residency elsewhere. I think this counts as extremely deceptive. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523/101 "2020-12-10T22:11:57Z")
I agree, that’s not painting the whole picture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-agents-raid-home-of-fired-public-health-agent-who-refused-to-manipulate-covid-data/927523.md?page=6)