# Florida Amendment 2: Gay Marriage. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611 "2008-10-19T03:42:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/21 "2008-10-30T02:11:53Z")
Still more letters to the editor of the local paper are pouring in from CA Prop 8 supporters claiming that Family, the Foundation of Society, will be torn apart if gays marry, because they don’t propagate. To which I say, SFW? We don’t need any more propagation than there already is. There are other obvious arguments as well. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/22 "2008-10-30T02:25:04Z")
Arizona looks ugly though. 7 million for the yes side, 500,000 for the no side. The Mormon church (cult) have given them a blank check. Even in my zip code, which is one of the largest gay zip codes in the state, I’ve gotten 3 yes on 102 mailers. I’d really like to think that a large Obama turnout and an election already decided before the AZ polls close will help, I’m also well aware that many of those Hispanic Obama voters are conservative Catholics who will vote yes on 102 and I don’t see any way it can be defeated this time. Florida and California, it is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/23 "2008-10-30T02:59:34Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > If it fails, they’d probably try again. A SSM amendment failed in Arizona in 2006, they’re back again this year. Unfortunately, this year the Mormon church has written the Yes side a blank check and it will probably pass. Can I get a clarification on this? I wasn’t aware the Mormons had any particular influence outside of Utah and how and to whom is this “blank check” being written? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/24 "2008-10-30T12:03:17Z")
[$60 Million On the Table Over Gay Marriage Ban](http://www.laindependent.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=71&twindow=Default&mad=No&sdetail=4245&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1014&hn=laindependent&he=.com) > [@](#): > > California’s Proposition 8 has generated nearly $60 million in campaign contributions so far, making the fight over same-sex marriage over the most costly ballot initiative in the country this year, it was reported Saturday. > > Supporters of Proposition 8, so far, have raised $27.5 million, with about 19 percent of the money coming from outside California. Opponents have raised $31.2 million, with 34 percent of the money coming from outside the state, reported the Los Angeles Times. > > California law permits donors to give unlimited sums on ballot measure, opening the way for million-dollar donors. > > Many donors cite religious beliefs, with members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints emerging as the largest source of money to the Yes- on-8 effort. Mormons contributed about 40 percent of its war chest. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/25 "2008-10-30T12:29:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Can I get a clarification on this? I wasn’t aware the Mormons had any particular influence outside of Utah and how and to whom is this “blank check” being written? They were instrumental in getting the original statutory referendum in California passed, and they’re riding Prop 8 right into election day. The LDS are the major financiers of anti-gay legislation in the American West and Southwest. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/26 "2008-10-30T12:33:11Z")
I voted against 2 here in Kissimmee, fl. While I did my part, **Nashiitashii** and I have also made a list of businesses with “yes on 2” signs in their windows and have blacklisted them, regardless of what they provide. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/27 "2008-10-30T12:41:24Z")
States that permit same sex marriage should not recognize the driver’s licenses from states that refuse to honor their marriages. Fair is fair. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/28 "2008-10-30T15:42:53Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > States that permit same sex marriage should not recognize the driver’s licenses from states that refuse to honor their marriages. Fair is fair. And should the reverse procedure then be used? 47 states recognize each others’ drivers’ licenses and three states are frozen out? This would help the acceptance of same-sex marriage?? Listen: stop helping, OK? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/29 "2008-10-30T16:55:26Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > If it fails, they’d probably try again. A SSM amendment failed in Arizona in 2006, they’re back again this year. Unfortunately, this year the Mormon church has written the Yes side a blank check and it will probably pass. So the Mormon Church is acting as champion for traditional marriage? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/30 "2008-10-30T17:04:10Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > So the Mormon Church is acting as champion for traditional marriage? 😕 Yeah, the LDS renounced polygamy about … a century ago. You are whooshing us, aren’t you. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/31 "2008-10-30T18:10:11Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Yeah, the LDS renounced polygamy about … > > a century ago. > > You are whooshing us, aren’t you. I still thought that Mormons practiced polygamy. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/32 "2008-10-30T18:13:31Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > I still thought that Mormons practiced polygamy. Some heretical sects still do, but the mainline LDS (what most people mean when they say “Mormon”) does not. That doesn’t excuse their organized hatred and funding of discriminatory legislation against gays, but bringing polygamy into it as a slam against them is going to backfire on the person who does it. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/33 "2008-10-31T01:27:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Can I get a clarification on this? I wasn’t aware the Mormons had any particular influence outside of Utah and how and to whom is this “blank check” being written? [Story](http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/10/19/20081019preachingissue1019.html) [Story](http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2008/10/03/20081003marriagemoney1003.html) ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/34 "2008-10-31T01:30:54Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Some heretical sects still do, but the mainline LDS (what most people mean when they say “Mormon”) does not. That doesn’t excuse their organized hatred and funding of discriminatory legislation against gays, but bringing polygamy into it as a slam against them is going to backfire on the person who does it. Why? I"ll agree that the mainline Mormon party line doesn’t officially recognize polygamy, but behind closed doors, I"m sure it is a wink and a nod. The Mormon cult is as despicable as Scientology and is far more dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/35 "2008-10-31T01:47:55Z")
They put it on the ballot as a “get out the fundamentalist” vote measure. There’s no way that the current law would get changed or amended anytime soon, given the make up of the legislature and the state supreme court. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/36 "2008-10-31T03:30:59Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Would this, coupled with a Cali defeat of its proposal start a downhill slope? A “downhill” slope? Why downhill? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/37 "2008-10-31T04:31:28Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > And I could see the Florida Supremes crafting an opinion striking down the state marriage law as discriminatory, and noting that the people had a chance to state their preference on illegal SSM, and did not vote to enshrine it in the constitution. That’s a bit like saying that if a state votes not to practice the death penalty, the state courts are going to legalize murder. In other words, it’s an absurd misinterpretation of how the American legal system works. Florida has already voted to make gay marriage illegal. Their failure to further make it unconstitutional is not going to be a factor in any future court decision regarding gay marriage. Ultimately, this vote is going to be meaningless. It would be a great moral victory if it were defeated, but the end result is still going to be that gays can’t get married in Florida, and are unlikely to be able to do so any time soon. All this vote is saying is that Florida is willing to knock gays over, but they’ll refrain from kicking us while we’re down. Big fuckin’ deal. The real fight is here in California, where for the first time we have a shot at the electorate recognizing the fundamental equality of homosexuals in society. Florida is a side-show to try to energize the fundy base. It doesn’t really mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/38 "2008-10-31T23:52:19Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Yeah, the LDS renounced polygamy about …a century ago. Well yeah. But even ignoring the unofficial behind closed doors stuff, wasn’t that basically just a political move? I’m not well versed in LDS history, but I got the impression that the founder had nothing to do with the change, and I imagine that they didn’t go through their holy book with a black marker either. > [@FriarTed](#): > > You are whooshing us, aren’t you. Maybe a minor whoosh. There’s no outrage here, but it’s definitely ironic and :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/39 "2008-11-01T01:17:35Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Why? I"ll agree that the mainline Mormon party line doesn’t officially recognize polygamy, but behind closed doors, I"m sure it is a wink and a nod. Speaking as a former member… no winks or nods. If you practice polygamy you will be excommunicated, no ifs or buts. The church and its leaders are hypersensitive on this issue, and I find it nearly impossible to believe that any member of the main LDS church is unclear on the issue. Obviously many of the various splinter groups disagree. In fact that is why many of them are splinter groups, leaving the main church in protest over the change on polygamy. That is not to say that polygomy isn’t still on the books so to speak. But it was never a requirement of membership and only a small fraction ever practiced (mostly the wealthy and leadership). And as long as it is illegal in the US the main church will not practice it. The whole point being that the church members are required to obey civil law. So unless and until it is made legal in the US it is strictly verbotten. That has been enshrined as LDS scripture in the Doctrine and Covennants. Most Mormons I know view this as a quaint, and somewhat embarrassing bit of history. Very few are pining for the days of its return. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611/40 "2008-11-01T01:46:19Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I was very surprised to see this on my ballot this week!! I meant to start a thread about it, I’m glad you did. Has there been much discussion about it at all in Florida?? Commercials, or anything? I hadn’t heard a thing about it until I saw it on the ballot. I haven’t seen any TV ads pro or con, some “NO ON 2” signs and buttons, some discussion in the newspapers. According to [this](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-flbamendpoll1019sboct19,0,1805467.story) it’s likely to fail – only 53% support, and it takes 60% to pass an amendment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-amendment-2-gay-marriage/468611.md?page=3)