# Florida executes first white for killing a black since reinstating death penalty **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559 "2017-08-24T14:31:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/21 "2017-08-24T16:57:39Z")
I don’t recall making a claim about an 18-to-1 disparity - do you have a cite for my saying that? 😃 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/22 "2017-08-24T17:08:05Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The FBI did a [report](https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers) that showed for all solved murders committed by a single person and with a single victim the number of black people killed by whites per year averages around 175 and the number white people killed by black people averages around 500. So of all the people executed for that crime in Florida, between 1/4 and 2/3 of them should have been white, statistically speaking? Seeing the incredibly low(non-existent) rate of executions for white-on-black murders _might_ lead a person to assume that it is easier to convict someone of black-on-white crime than the other way around, which might contribute to the scewed murder conviction rate. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/23 "2017-08-24T17:08:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t recall making a claim about an 18-to-1 disparity - do you have a cite for my saying that? Nope, that’s why I’m asking you. I mean, for some reason you seemed to think it was relevant to come into a thread about this particular sentencing disparity situation and claim that death penalty sentencing is more dependent on the stranger-murder factor than on race. (You also appeared to disparage claims that there’s racial bias in death penalty sentencing, if that has anything to do with the point you were trying to make.) So I’m wondering where you got the actual data supporting your claim about the relative importance of the stranger-murder factor vs. the race factor, and whether you are trying to imply that (if true) it would account for this particular level of sentencing disparity. ---
**Author:** ![StraightTalk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straighttalk/32/9982_2.png) [@StraightTalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StraightTalk)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/24 "2017-08-24T20:00:14Z")
According to the execution list I found, of the 92 people that have been executed in Florida since 1976, 57 were white males and 29 were black males. Make of that what you will. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/25 "2017-08-24T20:32:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > One third? Really? That seems low; AFAICT, the national percentage of murderers who are white men is more like 45%. Got a cite for those numbers, while I’m waiting for **Shodan** ’s cite? [Here](http://www.coj.net/departments/sheriffs-office/docs/electronic--press-room-home-page/long-term-murder-study.aspx)is a presentationby Jacksonville’s sherriff department that shows 32% of people arrested for murder were white men. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/26 "2017-08-24T20:42:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So of all the people executed for that crime in Florida, between 1/4 and 2/3 of them should have been white, statistically speaking? > Seeing the incredibly low(non-existent) rate of executions for white-on-black murders _might_ lead a person to assume that it is easier to convict someone of black-on-white crime than the other way around, which might contribute to the scewed murder conviction rate. If the proportion of interracial murders is similar in Florida as the rest of the population then about 11 black people a year in Florida are killed by whites and 31 white people are killed by black people. So 25% of the people executed for interracial murder would be white if it were random. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/27 "2017-08-24T22:48:57Z")
> [@StraightTalk](#): > > According to the execution list I found, of the 92 people that have been executed in Florida since 1976, 57 were white males and 29 were black males. Make of that what you will. Nothing can be definitively made of that, other than the very fact itself. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/28 "2017-08-25T00:07:38Z")
Well, he’s dead, and America is now a post-racism society. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/29 "2017-08-25T15:41:04Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > [Here](http://www.coj.net/departments/sheriffs-office/docs/electronic--press-room-home-page/long-term-murder-study.aspx)is a presentationby Jacksonville’s sherriff department that shows 32% of people arrested for murder were white men. Arrests are a rather poor measure of the number of perpetrators. > [@Shodan](#): > > Tell you what - how about if you report my post, and let’s see if \*any \*rules have been broken? By either of us? If you insist. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/30 "2017-08-25T16:16:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Arrests are a rather poor measure of the number of perpetrators. > > If you insist. Arrests are a pretty good indicator in murders since homicide has the highest clearance rate of any crime. They would probably under report black murders since [states](http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2013/01/rates-of-unsolved-murder-by-state.html)that are more white and more rural have higher rates of clearance for homicides. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/31 "2017-08-25T16:21:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > “Solely” on racial disparity. And cost. Gotcha. > > > > Regards, > > Shodan > > I believe calling another poster a liar in GD is verboten. … > [@Shodan](#): > > I believe you are correct. It is not, AFAIK, the only thing that is verboten. > > Tell you what - how about if you report my post, and let’s see if \*any \*rules have been broken? By either of us? Obviously you are both aware of the well established rule. Shodan - while the snarkiness in post #3 and #8 aren’t rule violations, they don’t do you any favors in fostering the assumption of positive intent from your readers. If the comment about ‘solely’ was a misinterpreted joke (as I read it), a riff on the incongruousness of the word solely with multiple reasons, it’s easy enough to clarify. This is a general note to all to please remain civil. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/32 "2017-08-25T17:18:57Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Arrests are a pretty good indicator in murders since homicide has the highest clearance rate of any crime. If you assume that law enforcement arrests blacks and whites at the same rate, sure. But we know that isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/33 "2017-08-25T17:33:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Arrests are a rather poor measure of the number of perpetrators. > > If you insist. There are ways to (roughly) estimate the prevalence of homicides among different ethnic groups that are independent of any racial bias in arrest rates. For example one can correlate the murder rate in a city with the percentage of different ethnic groups. This kind of analysis leads to results that aren’t that much different than what the arrest rate tells us. (high homicide rates among African Americans, much lower rates among whites and Latinos, the Latino rate isn’t particularly higher than the white rate when you correct for the fact that Latinos are younger and younger people commit more violent crimes). > **[Race and Crime in America](https://www.unz.com/runz/race-and-crime-in-america/)** > > The unspoken statistical reality of urban crime over the last quarter century. Nonetheless, while it’s well known the African-American homicide rate is much higher than the white rate, Florida’s history of not executing _any_ white criminals with black victims is wildly disproportionate to the actual prevalence of these sorts of crimes, and a different in the base rate of homicide isn’t enough to explain or justify why Florida does what it does. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/34 "2017-08-25T18:52:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Any execution of a murderer is a step in the right direction. But WADR I think that kind of misses the point. DP opponents don’t oppose the DP because it is racially discriminatory, they allege that it is racially discriminatory because they oppose the DP. That’s a weird claim. I opposed the DP before _even considering_ whether it’s racially discriminatory. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/35 "2017-08-26T00:44:50Z")
What are the numbers? How many whites have been convicted of murdering blacks since 1976? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/36 "2017-08-27T18:22:30Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > What about well poisoning? Should we support the death penalty for that? Naah, just make 'em drink from it. ---
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/37 "2017-09-01T23:17:04Z")
I’m against the death penalty, so obviously I don’t applaud this. It doesn’t change the fact that blacks are still far more likely to be executed either. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/38 "2017-09-01T23:44:44Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > There are ways to (roughly) estimate the prevalence of homicides among different ethnic groups that are independent of any racial bias in arrest rates. For example one can correlate the murder rate in a city with the percentage of different ethnic groups. This kind of analysis leads to results that aren’t that much different than what the arrest rate tells us. (high homicide rates among African Americans, much lower rates among whites and Latinos, the Latino rate isn’t particularly higher than the white rate when you correct for the fact that Latinos are younger and younger people commit more violent crimes). I fail to see why those numbers would be any more useful. The only murders in the murder rate are those for which someone has been convicted of murder. So the exact same bias has been introduced–of people being convicted of murder when it wasn’t, and deaths that are not ruled as murder even though they actually were. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559/39 "2017-09-02T18:20:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I fail to see why those numbers would be any more useful. The only murders in the murder rate are those for which someone has been convicted of murder. So the exact same bias has been introduced–of people being convicted of murder when it wasn’t, and deaths that are not ruled as murder even though they actually were. I should have been more precise: the numbers in the Ron Unz link are for _homicide_, and they’re independent of whether anyone was convicted or arrested for the homicide. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-executes-first-white-for-killing-a-black-since-reinstating-death-penalty/794559.md?page=1)