I thought the license plate was going to have Fox Mulder’s UFO poster as the design. I guess they only let you use more mainstream religions like Oprahism or Voodoo.
[QUOTE=GorillaMan]
I think it’s the ‘besides’ bit that it the major difference. Here, and I suspect in Israel as well, car and plate are as one. Nothing on any plates, except for permitted national identifications on the left side.
[/QUOTE]
There’s nothing on plates over here, either. Just a number and letters issued in order, followed by the code number of the french equivalent of a county. So, one gets a plat number like, say 4867 KDA 51, the next guy gets 4868 KDA an when the number reach 9999 KDA, following plates use the KDB serie.
No room for individualism, it seems all fair and dandy. Except that, a number of years ago, they stopped issuing plates with low numbers. Because people would go as far as bribing civil servants to get, say, a 7 KDA 51 plate rather than a way too ordinary 4867 KDA 51 plate :rolleyes:
So, by comparison, legally paying a fee to have an individualized plate is really nothing to be surprised about.
As pointed out earlier, these plates are entirely paid for by the drivers who order them. The state prints them, but that’s the extent of their involvement. Are you equally affronted by religious bumper stickers and Jesus Fishes? There’s no difference, IMO.
As an atheist, I’m far more annoyed by the anti-atheism remarks which today’s politicos are so often wont to regurgitate than by the proposed license plates. And, yes, I think if the KKK wants their own plate, they should be allowed to have it.
Um, what? Does the state of Florida print and supply religious bumper stickers and Jesus fish? Has it made it illegal to put other bumper stickers and fish on cars?
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
As pointed out earlier, these plates are entirely paid for by the drivers who order them. The state prints them, but that’s the extent of their involvement. Are you equally affronted by religious bumper stickers and Jesus Fishes? There’s no difference, IMO.
As an atheist, I’m far more annoyed by the anti-atheism remarks which today’s politicos are so often wont to regurgitate than by the proposed license plates. And, yes, I think if the KKK wants their own plate, they should be allowed to have it.
[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t matter who pays for them. What matters is that the plates serve an official state function and represent a statement by the state, not the individual who displays the plate. I think it’s akin to stamping crosses or Stars of David onto Birth Certificates.
There is also the issue that those who support this plate have also said they would oppose plates endorsing other religious views, which definitely causes Constitutional problems.
[QUOTE=Alessan]
I don’t get you Americans. Why should a license plate have *anything * on it except for the vehicle’s license number?
[/QUOTE]
Winner.
There’s no need for anything other than identification, state and year. IMO, none of that nonsense belongs on a license plate. When you open that Pandora’s Box you invite the very controversy that we see now in Florida. The states, however, see an easy way to make a buck through pandering.
You know how there are two things you should never bring up in polite company-- politics and religion? In America we take that to mean that our views on these subjects should be stated openly on our license plates. The freeways are not jammed with polite company I guess.
I’d like to see a rainbow flag or a pink triangle on the FL plates. Let’s see how that would go over.
[QUOTE=I Love Me, Vol. I]
Winner.
There’s no need for anything other than identification, state and year. IMO, none of that nonsense belongs on a license plate. When you open that Pandora’s Box you invite the very controversy that we see now in Florida. The states, however, see an easy way to make a buck through pandering.
You know how there are two things you should never bring up in polite company-- politics and religion? In America we take that to mean that our views on these subjects should be stated openly on our license plates. The freeways are not jammed with polite company I guess.
[/QUOTE]
I tend to agree. As has been pointed out, British plates (and those of other countries) have nothing but the relevant number on them, plus (optionally) a code identifying the issuing country.
Now I can see why, in the USA, it would help law enforcement to put the issuing state on the plate, too - my car’s PA plate even has the URL of the PA government. Because obviously the best way to get citizens interested in iDemoCracy is to stick it on license plates. But what else needs to be there? Dammit, if folks want to contribute $25 to a charity, why not just do it?
Am I cynical? If self-expression via license plate is the only viable option…I mean, in the UK a license plate is not generally the first, um, vehicle for self-expression we’d consider.
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
As pointed out earlier, these plates are entirely paid for by the drivers who order them. The state prints them, but that’s the extent of their involvement.
[/QUOTE]
They not only print them, they decide which ones shall be produced. That’s too much involvement.
The Bill of Rights is not just about funding. When it says the government can’t do something, it doesn’t just mean they can’t spend tax revenue on it. It means they can’t do it at all.
Another part of the Constitution says “No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States.” That doesn’t just mean that if Congress makes you an earl you have to pay for the coat of arms yourself.
[QUOTE=rock party]
I’d like to see a rainbow flag or a pink triangle on the FL plates. Let’s see how that would go over.
[/QUOTE]
Motto: “Florida? Fabulous!”
I like it!
The money could go to the South Beach Historic District.
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi]
Motto: “Florida? Fabulous!”
I like it!
The money could go to the South Beach Historic District.
[/QUOTE]
“Florida: Oh, the stories you’ll tell!”
[QUOTE=WF Tomba]
“Florida: Oh, the stories you’ll tell!”
[/QUOTE]
That’s an interesting ad. Please tell me it was at least partly funded by the state. They should have a caption writing contest to go with that picture.
[QUOTE=Alessan]
I don’t get you Americans. Why should a license plate have *anything * on it except for the vehicle’s license number?
[/QUOTE]
Even then, it can get kind of pricey. Like $14M per numeral.
[QUOTE=WF Tomba]
Do you know of any examples of states that put specialty plate revenue straight into the general fund? That’s what I used to assume was happening, but looking at the Florida list I linked to, I haven’t yet found any sign of this.
[/QUOTE]
I’m a Hoosier, not a Floridian; I can’t tell you where the “I Believe” plate fees go. In Indiana, the tiny fees from the “In God We Trust” plates do not go to any religious group. They go straight to the state. All the rest of our special plates are split between the state and the group the plate backs. (I’d find you a cite for that, but I’m weary from fighting a bad infection in my leg.) For example, a Heritage Trust plate sends half its extra fee to buy land for wildlife refuges, and the other half goes to the general fund of the state.
Our “In God” plate is, to my non-lawyer brain, unconstitutional, because the government is supporting the establishment of religion.
[QUOTE=Cervaise]
I want a license plate that says “Cthulhu fhtagn.”
[/QUOTE]
That post in this thread reminded me of the other thread about the other state that had a license plate stating “Kids First” which someone got with the custom tag number “Cthulhu”.
[QUOTE=AskNott]
The proposed Florida plate is much worse. The cross points out a particular deity, thus establishing Christianity as the one approved religion of Florida. It’s clearly unconstitutional, because of the hard connection between church and state.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=jtgain]
But that’s not what you said. You said that:
“The cross points out a particular deity, thus establishing Christianity as the one approved religion of Florida”
So if we are going to be consistent, then you would say that the Support Teachers plate establishes teaching as the one approved profession of Florida, right?
I’m not asking if it would be constitutional or not. I’m asking if an optional license plate about teaching, wildlife, NASCAR, or Christianity, or whatever else makes such a broad statement regarding the state of Florida’s endorsement of it, to the exclusion of all similar things.
Since you can get a Florida State plate, does that mean that it is the only “approved” university in Florida? But you can also get a Florida Gators plate, so is that the only one approved school?
We have a paradox under your interpretation of what this Christian license plate means..
[/QUOTE]
I’m growing weary of this. Let’s frame which hairs we’re splitting, okay? The constitutional part says congress (which the courts say also includes the state legislatures) can’t support the establishment of religion. Not the majority religion, not the tiniest religion.
The other part is my opinion about why that clause is needed. It is not the government’s business to declare which religion is right. The government cannot be in the religion business at all.
I saw Brown Eyed Girl’s link to the list of Florida’s special plates. Maybe the Imagine plate represents atheism, and maybe it doesn’t. So one, or maybe two religions have the option of getting Florida’s official aluminum recognition on their front and rear license plates.
That’s why we have the first amendment.
[QUOTE=AskNott]
I’m growing weary of this. Let’s frame which hairs we’re splitting, okay? The constitutional part says congress (which the courts say also includes the state legislatures) can’t support the establishment of religion. Not the majority religion, not the tiniest religion.
The other part is my opinion about why that clause is needed. It is not the government’s business to declare which religion is right. The government cannot be in the religion business at all.
I saw Brown Eyed Girl’s link to the list of Florida’s special plates. Maybe the Imagine plate represents atheism, and maybe it doesn’t. So one, or maybe two religions have the option of getting Florida’s official aluminum recognition on their front and rear license plates.
That’s why we have the first amendment.
[/QUOTE]
Atheism isn’t a religion. Is your hobby not collecting stamps?
Otherwise I totally agree. Religion belongs in places of worship and at home. The government has no place endorsing one.
[QUOTE=Shayna]
Ok, I laughed out loud at that last line. Coupled with the Roman Catholic chick who opposes it because of the “slippery slope” it creates that will lead to the Star of David and Torah that she “doesn’t want to see” was also quite entertaining. These people really do have some balls of steel, don’t they?
[/QUOTE]
You may be correct. However, given that Rep. Skidmore represents (heavily Jewish) Palm Beach and adjacent Broward County, I am wondering if her actual statement was intended to indicate that she did not want her religion on a plate and she felt her constituents probably felt the same way.
[QUOTE=AskNott]
I saw Brown Eyed Girl’s link to the list of Florida’s special plates. Maybe the Imagine plate represents atheism, and maybe it doesn’t. So one, or maybe two religions have the option of getting Florida’s official aluminum recognition on their front and rear license plates.
[/QUOTE]
If I really had to put a label on it, I’d say it promotes secular Humanism. That is, the message of the song, Imagine is what the world might be like if that which divides us and contributes to human suffering no longer did. ‘A brotherhood of man.’ The specifics of what divides us were Lennon’s own view of the world and, by and large, I don’t think he was wrong.
As for the cause, the Imagine plate supports Florida food banks (“No need for greed or hunger”). This is hardly a religious-based organization or activity. The mission to combat hunger crosses religious boundaries and is humanitarian cause.
Incidentally, South Carolinians can get a secular Humanism license plate. 
Let’s be fair–this is mostly a Florida thing, right? Most of the other 49 states haven’t had this problem…right? (Yes, I know about Indiana, but that’s the only other one…right?!)
Really? I’m curious as to what it looks like.