# Florida Legislature moves to close Internet Cafes. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 16, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065 "2013-03-16T00:43:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/1 "2013-03-16T00:43:08Z")
I was a bit annoyed until I read the article. Geez, people are doing a lot more than reading their email and shopping Amazon. 😛 Never dreamed they would setup gambling places disguised as Internet cafes. These darn criminals had one heck of an operation going. Earning 300 million in 4 years. :eek:. What does this mean for places like Starbucks that offer free Internet? Libraries and other Wi-Fi hotspots? [http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-usa-florida-lieutenantgovernor-idUSBRE92D1BL20130314](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-usa-florida-lieutenantgovernor-idUSBRE92D1BL20130314) > [@](#): > > Internet cafes sell phone cards or internet access that customers can use on-premises, often to gamble online, playing electronic slot machines or poker, among other games. Winnings and losses are recorded on an access card, which can be cashed out when a player leaves an establishment. > > Many city and county governments, including sheriffs, have called them “storefront casinos,” but pleas for statewide regulation have gone unheeded. > > That changed on Wednesday when Republican leaders, including Senate President Don Gaetz and House Speaker Will Weatherford, rushed to add internet cafe bills to the top of committee agendas. > > Law enforcement officials alleged that Allied Veterans earned about $300 million over a four-year period while it served as a front for illegal gambling. The Oklahoma-based organization spent around $2 million on political donations over the same period. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/2 "2013-03-16T01:07:00Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > What does this mean for places like Starbucks that offer free Internet? Libraries and other Wi-Fi hotspots? I’m quite sure the changes to the law won’t affect Starbucks, and other legitimate businesses that provide free wifi, in the slightest. These “storefront casinos” were exactly that, and didn’t resemble (physically or fiscally) legitimate businesses whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/3 "2013-03-16T01:27:13Z")
I wanted to start a thread about this, ever since that Florida Lt Governor got in hot water. We have these in Hawaii now, too. How does it work? [ol] [li]1. Buy a card to use an online slot machine for $10[/li][li]2. Winnings get transferred from the slot machine. You get the right combinations and making it a $50 card at the end of the run.[/li][li]3. Cash in your card, walk away with $50[/li][/ol] The articles said they had some loophole about them being “sweepstakes”. So, some of the symbols are for, say, a blender, but you can return the card for the cash equivalent instead of the blender? Either way, it seems awfully transparently gambling to be a true “loophole”. That a second grader, not a paid investigator, should’ve seen through this before it even got started. Especially Hawaii, which allows absolutely no gambling (even lotto). Am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/4 "2013-03-16T01:43:46Z")
This miami-herald article has more information on the gambling and arrests. [http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/03/13/3284531/internet-cafe-probe-snags-dozens.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/03/13/3284531/internet-cafe-probe-snags-dozens.html) I’m surprised they let it get this big before acting. Seems like very blatant gambling. Internet cafes are places to drink coffee and use a computer. Nothing like what these guys were doing in Florida. > [@](#): > > Eslinger said that those arrested are being held without bond and face, in total, charges of 57 counts of Racketeering Influence Corrupt Organization, or RICO, 57 counts of RICO conspiracy, 614 counts of illegal possession of slot machines, 614 counts of gaming violations, 614 counts of keeping a gambling house and 1,265 counts of money-laundering. > > Police seized computers, cash, computer servers, records and some slot machines from 40 gaming centers and a warehouse, Eslinger said. ---
**Author:** ![BuzzSaw101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@BuzzSaw101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuzzSaw101)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/5 "2013-03-16T02:05:25Z")
I have some family members heavily involved in this Fla. case. Here’s how it worked in Florida. You go in and it’s a big room filled with computer terminals. You buy minutes to use the Internet. For every minute you buy, you get so many “sweepstake” entries. For example, if you buy $50 in minutes, you would get 500 entries. Now, you can use the minutes for anything Internet-related. But nobody does. They use their entries to play casino-type games. If you win anything, you don’t “cash out,” you would “redeem.” The people who run these say it’s no different than other sweepstakes, like the McDonald’s Monopoly game for example. They say all the winners are predetermined so it’s not gambling (which it is) The problem in Florida is that these places have to be aligned with a charity that must give back to the community at least 60 percent of profits. Allied Veterans, the charity aligned with these places, is alleged to have only spent 2 percent of the profits in the community. I know some of the people running these places and I can tell you, the money flowed like wine. I’m talking about big boats, multimillion dollar beachfront homes and sports cars. When I would visit them, there was a “Scarface” vibe with these people. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/6 "2013-03-16T05:41:28Z")
As an interesting bit of trivia, the company I work for recently did a survey of Florida residents on those “internet cafes.” I had never heard about them before that. It’s interesting to get more information. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/7 "2013-03-16T07:19:49Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > Either way, it seems awfully transparently gambling to be a true “loophole”. That a second grader, not a paid investigator, should’ve seen through this before it even got started. Especially Hawaii, which allows absolutely no gambling (even lotto). > > Am I missing something? It appears the loophole is the online connection. In theory, no actual gambling is occurring in the business location. They’re just providing you with internet access so you can connect with an online gambling business in some other jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/8 "2013-03-16T08:48:51Z")
We have them here in Israel, too, although fewer than there used to be. From what I can see, they don’t even try to look like anything other than gambling dens. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/9 "2013-03-16T09:04:53Z")
I’m sorry but who cares? Maybe the state ran out of drug users and prostitution providers and customers to harass and lock up. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/10 "2013-03-16T11:56:49Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I’m sorry but who cares? > > Maybe the state ran out of drug users and prostitution providers and customers to harass and lock up. Come on now… If you’re going to bash a stereotype of Florida, at least work some sort of humor into it, or else what’s the point? Otherwise, it just comes off like you’re still bitter about getting busted with drugs in a prostitution sting in Miami. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/11 "2013-03-16T12:04:17Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Come on now… If you’re going to bash a stereotype of Florida, at least work some sort of humor into it, or else what’s the point? Otherwise, it just comes off like you’re still bitter about getting busted with drugs in a prostitution sting in Miami. Heh, I was going more for gambling=victimless crime that should be legal :). I was not besmirching America’s wang at all. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/12 "2013-03-16T13:56:27Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Heh, I was going more for gambling=victimless crime that should be legal :). > > I was not besmirching America’s wang at all. Oh. In that case, you’ll be happy to know that there is _plenty_ of legal gambling going on in America’s wang. It’s just the one’s exploiting loopholes by posing as charities, bribing politicians, dodging taxes, and laundering money that are getting raided. ETA: The legal gambling venues just know not to pose as charities… ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/13 "2013-03-16T15:11:37Z")
I’m in Brevard, ground zero for these “Internet Cafes”. There are (were?) at least 4 within walking distance of me, and I can easily tell you the locations of 3 more within 15 miles. Most of them are obviously nothing more than gambling parlors. I assume the others are mostly gambling parlors as well, but are confusingly labelled enough that you might walk in to one if you just needed to use the Internet. One of those questionable ones does not appear to be a member of the chain being discussed here. In fact, I wonder if it might also be a real internet cafe (in addition to offering gambling, as it advertises,) because it also offers coffee and breakfast. Then again it might just offer coffee and breakfast – for gamblers! ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/14 "2013-03-16T18:43:09Z")
Around here, there’s no “Internet cafe” ruse, they just come right out and say SWEEPSTAKES on the door. The other give away is that they invariably have opaque mirroring on the windows or the glass is just painted black. The state has been trying to get rid of them for some time, but the best they’ve been able to get through so far is that they can’t use “enticing graphic displays” for the gambling aspects. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/15 "2013-03-16T19:10:28Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Oh. In that case, you’ll be happy to know that there is _plenty_ of legal gambling going on in America’s wang. It’s just the one’s exploiting loopholes by posing as charities, bribing politicians, dodging taxes, and laundering money that are getting raided. > > ETA: The legal gambling venues just know not to pose as charities… Then (and this is honest curiosity) why are these places raking in so much cash? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/16 "2013-03-16T19:26:41Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Then (and this is honest curiosity) why are these places raking in so much cash? There aren’t that many outlets for legal gambling of the sort that many people want to engage in. People like casino style gaming and these operations give them an approximation of that. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/17 "2013-03-16T20:09:02Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Then (and this is honest curiosity) why are these places raking in so much cash? These type of places are primarily located in small towns that don’t have casinos reasonably nearby. They cater to a primarily low-class/elderly clientele that either just don’t have much else in town to do, and/or are just gambling degenerates. And it’s mainly just slot/bingo-like games, not full casino gambling. Because these places have a nearly captive audience, and operate out of strip malls with a relatively miniscule overhead and minimal staff (compared to a real, flashy casino), and were using the “charity” cover to dodge taxes, it was nearly all going to the bottom line. I wouldn’t be surprised if the odds they were offering were borderline extortionate, either. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/18 "2013-03-16T22:29:25Z")
This kind of easy money attracts organized crime. Theres indications of corruption and payouts to officials. It’s already cost the Lt Governor her job. They’ve just begun uncovering this roach nest. A lot of the lower income people are gambling away their unemployment checks or child support payments. Playing the slots instead of paying the rent or buying groceries. It can be a bad addiction. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/19 "2013-03-16T22:36:52Z")
My town in Ohio used to have one of these places. I’m not sure if it just folded up or if the city kicked it out. Before that, the popular ruse was “skill games.” IIRC, you’d do something like put the X in the right place on a tic tac toe board and then slots would show up. For the year or two before the city and state cracked down, there were 4 or 5 of the places. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-legislature-moves-to-close-internet-cafes/653065/20 "2013-03-18T15:39:17Z")
This reminds me of the goings on in New Rochelle in the '60s. [You may have heard of Disney’s version of the story.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_North_Avenue_Irregulars)