# Florida Man charged with stealing Speaker's podium **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 10, 2021, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157 "2021-01-10T02:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/61 "2021-01-10T23:50:43Z")
A [press release](https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/two-men-charged-connection-events-us-capitol) from the US Attorney says about zip-tie guy, "Eric Gavelek Munchel, of Tennessee, was charged with one count of knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority and one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds. Munchel was arrested today in Tennessee. It is alleged that Munchel was inside of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. Photos depicting his presence show a person who appears to be Munchel carrying plastic restraints, an item in a holster on his right hip, and a cell phone mounted on his chest with the camera facing outward, ostensibly to record events that day." ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/62 "2021-01-11T02:57:28Z")
Today’s “Yeah, right” award goes to Eric Gavelek Munchel for his claim that he “found the zip-ties on the floor and picked them up, intending to give them to a police officer if he encountered one” ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/63 "2021-01-11T12:16:34Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Motivation is hard to prove in court. In their minds, firm in their belief of the facts as they have been old them, they were trying to SAVE American democracy from being stolen by a fixed election. I believe they really believed that Man robs a jewelry store. Tells the cops: “But a fat man named Rush, on the radio, told me they were MY jewels!” That’ll fly as much as David Berkowitz: “But my neighbor’s dog TOLD me to murder those people!” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/64 "2021-01-11T12:30:30Z")
You get that the whole point in your very example is that the crime was what was DONE, not what “the stated PURPOSE” was. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/65 "2021-01-11T14:20:02Z")
True, I’m combining “excuse for a crime” with “purpose of a crime.” In the “but someone told me the jewelry was mine!” example, it’s just a lame excuse that will fail to avoid prosecution, but isn’t a crime in itself. In the “but Rush and Trump told me the election was mine!” example, it’s BOTH a lame excuse AND further evidence of a crime in itself (sedition), that makes punishment more severe than it would have been otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/66 "2021-01-11T14:42:39Z")
Let’s revisit the statement. > [@JKellyMap](#): > > the stated PURPOSE behind this insurrection. > > It was to PREVENT THE RESULTS OF AN ELECTION. It was SPECIFICALLY to end American democracy. From their belief system and statements that was not the PURPOSE. They believe they are saving democracy not ending it, and saving an election from being stolen. And their belief in that matters as little as a thief believing that they are just recovering what has been stolen from them. Don’t matter. The thief broke in and tried to take it by force. Maybe he tried to convince the police and the courts first and they all told him that he had no evidence that the jewelry was theirs so sorry. He thinks the process failed him. Still, no matter. The action was the crime. And the insurrectionists broke into the Capitol trying to “save” the election they feel was stolen from them by force. That action is the crime. I will agree that a stated intent to cause violence or to kill matters. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/67 "2021-01-11T16:49:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And their belief in that matters as little as a thief believing that they are just recovering what has been stolen from them. Example: OJ Simpson. ---
**Author:** ![fc1114](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/41988e/32.png) [@fc1114](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fc1114)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/68 "2021-01-12T01:00:38Z")
🤣 🤣 😂 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/69 "2021-01-12T21:52:38Z")
Well, Lectern Guy has got himself a brilliant lawyer, so I think everything’s going to be just fine! [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/_rVsRmcE-u8/maxresdefault.jpg "Lawyer Reacts to Lectern-Rioter's Lawyer #shorts") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rVsRmcE-u8) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/70 "2021-01-12T22:28:55Z")
As Sherlock Holmes put it: “Everyone has the right to be wrong, and you are merely exercising that right”: > **[18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384)** ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/71 "2021-01-13T00:25:38Z")
You may need to do a little more than to drop that link here. You have made a claim that they should be punished “more severely” because of a “stated purpose … specifically to end American democracy” (elimination of your all caps sections mine). I do not believe they had that “stated purpose”. Their _stated_ purpose was to save American democracy from being stolen, as their honestly held belief. Proving that their motivation was to end American democracy would not be able to be done. OTOH the _actions_ of those who forced entry into the capitol to disrupt (prevent/hinder/delay) the certification process were clearly “to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States”, even if they believed they were doing it to save the country and to save democracy. And as I pointed out in my first post of this hijack that’s “what they actually DID: insurrection.” Now per your link that meets the legal definition of “seditious conspiracy” … and your link seems to set an upper bound on the consequence of such but no minimal punishment established: a fine or “or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.” So though they might have had a stated purpose to save democracy, to object to what they think was an injustice and a crime, whatever they believed, does not matter. They are guilty of seditious conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/72 "2021-01-13T00:39:07Z")
I’m curious to learn more about the insider assistance they may have had. Someone (perhaps this thread, perhaps another) linked to a TMZ article that FBI sources suspect inside assistance based on how fast they got to the office of the Speaker of the House, that getting there requires going through a maze of hallways and her office is not labeled. Congressman Clyburn’s office was also invaded and it’s also unmarked, so he said on CNN that he thinks the people had insider assistance. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/73 "2021-01-13T01:13:26Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > They are guilty of seditious conspiracy [And on cue …](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-12/capitol-rioters-facing-sedition-charges-as-doj-ramps-up-probe) > [@](#): > > U.S. prosecutors are ramping up the investigation into last week’s riot at the Capitol, with more than 170 suspects under scrutiny and law enforcement officials planning charges of sedition and conspiracy. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m curious to learn more about the insider assistance they may have had. I’ll be pretty shocked if some is not found and that heads do not roll. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/74 "2021-01-13T01:22:57Z")
Would asking potential juror whether or not the 2020 election was valid be an acceptable question during jury selection? Or something similar to weed out crazy people? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/75 "2021-01-13T01:47:54Z")
Don’t expect too much in the way of smarts from folks who aren’t even housebroken. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/76 "2021-01-13T02:26:37Z")
Okey dokey. We agree on all the important matters. I think we’re just quibbling about the deeper meanings of the word “purpose”…as you said, best addressed in a different thread, someday. A bit of Aristotle to whet our whistle: 🙂 [Telos - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telos) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/77 "2021-01-13T02:50:56Z")
Sorry to add one more thing, but D\_Seid made me think harder about this. It might come down to a rather important point: How far back should we go, when tracing the roots of white nationalist delusions? True, many of them truly believe Trump won the election. But in order for these fools (who nevertheless manage to put their pants on each morning) to swallow so many obvious lies, to ignore so much evidence, they must have started traveling down a much longer path to get to this point…and they indeed embarked on that path with a STATED PURPOSE, no ambiguity, no nitpicking about false but sincerely held beliefs. And that purpose was to maintain white hegemony. So, they started with a heinous (but not in itself illegal) purpose. This led them to an illegal act (entering and vandalizing the Capitol, and in many cases threatening the safety of elected leaders and others),with seditious consequences (preventing congressional business) meriting further punishment. The fact that the specific activity that was disrupted — confirming an election — DID (DOES) heinously threaten or erode our democracy, isn’t a direct issue here. D\_Seid is right; legally, they’ll be just as severely punished as if the congress had been working on renaming a post office. But in a deeper sense, a CONSCIOUS desire to thwart democracy — to maintain white power when it was becoming clear, years ago, that this could not be maintained by democratic means (the numbers just aren’t there) — DID set in motion the chain of events that led to this. Perhaps there should be another law, another defined crime, another stronger punishment for this particular motivation (as expressed in actual action) — and maybe there is (interfering in elections?), but I don’t recall hearing this discussed in regards to this riot (correct me if I’m wrong). ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/78 "2021-01-13T11:02:58Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Perhaps there should be another law, another defined crime, another stronger punishment for this particular motivation (as expressed in actual action) Isn’t that allowed for in the range of the potential punishments already allowed in the relevant law? But I assume there aren’t any sentencing guidelines on where different acts fit on the spectrum, since there presumably haven’t been many precedent cases. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/79 "2021-01-13T12:49:10Z")
I agree that such might be, likely is, the original cause, but am fairly sure that only some are even conscious of that. Many would explicitly deny holding such racist beliefs. Oh you’ve got the explicit WP and six million not enough crowd there, but many others there likely convince themselves that such is not why they are there, they have Black and Jewish friends after all (!), and have no documentary trail of such. _Are_ there federal sentencing guidelines if a crime is also demonstrated to be a hate crime? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/80 "2021-01-13T14:12:36Z")
Joining ID Badge Guy in the race for dumbest rioter in the Capitol is a gold medalist who wore his US Olympic Team jacket to the insurrection. > **[Reports identify US Olympic champion swimmer Klete Keller at Capitol riot](https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jan/13/reports-identify-us-olympic-champion-swimmer-klete-keller-at-capitol-riot)** > > The relay teammate of Michael Phelps was identified on a video of Donald Trump’s supporters but was not shown to play any part in the violence [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157.md?page=5)