# Florida Movie Theater Shooting Leaves One Dead In Altercation Over Texting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 13, 2014, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717 "2014-01-13T22:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/121 "2014-01-15T18:03:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Again, a remarkable oversight given the detailed analysis and discussion that the Zimmerman case enjoyed on the SDMB. Count your blessings…imagine the chaos that would ensue here if the shooter had been threatened with an empty paper towel tube. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/122 "2014-01-15T18:36:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nay. Again, a remarkable oversight given the detailed analysis and discussion that the Zimmerman case enjoyed on the SDMB. Ah, except that I wasn’t only considering the Zimmerman case when I wrote that. Florida’s SYG law has been interpreted differently depending on the judge and on particulars of the case (and wasn’t even invoked in the Zimmerman trial). Surely you haven’t forgotten about [Greyston Garcia? > [@](#): > > Back in January, Garcia, 25, saw Pedro Roteta, 26, trying to steal the radio from his truck, which was parked outside Garcia’s Miami apartment. Garcia grabbed a large knife, ran downstairs and chased Roteta for at least a block. The incident was caught on tape and showed that Garcia stabbed Roteta to death. At the time Roteta was carrying a bag with stolen radios “but no weapon other than a pocketknife, which was unopened in his pocket and which police said he never brandished.” > > The Herald reports that a judge threw out the charges against Garcia, citing the state’s “stand your ground” law. As we reported earlier this week, the law did away with “the English Law concept of ‘duty to retreat’ from a situation that is dangerous outside your home.” The Florida Supreme Court also decided that it should be a judge, not a jury, who decides whether to grant a suspect immunity based on the law. ](['Stand Your Ground': Miami Judge Decides Fatal Stabbing Was Self-Defense : The Two-Way : NPR](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/22/149153379/stand-your-ground-miami-judge-decides-fatal-stabbing-was-self-defense)) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/123 "2014-01-15T18:50:09Z")
I see no connection with this case and Zimmerman. Zimmerman was alone in the dark and behind an apartment building. Getting beaten. There were bloody photos of the injuries. This guy in the theater had other people around him that could have helped or went for help. He may have been struck by a cardboard popcorn box. His lawyer will have an almost impossible task claiming self defense. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/124 "2014-01-15T19:20:27Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I see no connection with this case and Zimmerman. Zimmerman was alone in the dark and behind an apartment building. Getting beaten. There were bloody photos of the injuries. > > This guy in the theater had other people around him that could have helped or went for help. He may have been struck by a cardboard popcorn box. His lawyer will have an almost impossible task claiming self defense. No he won’t, not under Florida’s SYG law. Here’s [a few](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/16/stand-your-ground-cases_n_3606405.html) [cases](http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/local-victims-families-insist-floridas-stand-you-1/nLhwr/) for you to take a look at. Look at some of the cases where prosecutors declined to file any charges, citing Florida’s SYG law, in particular. Michael Monahan shot and killed two unarmed men who were 20 feet away and had a judge dismiss the double murder charge.[ > [@](#): > > The Assistant State attorney in the case, Jacqui Charbonneau, tried to prevent the court’s dismissal by asserting neither of the men Monahan killed were armed, they were shot from 20 feet away, and Monahan admitted neither of them laid a hand on him during the dispute. > > The judge countered with the fact that the statute does not call for the assailants to be armed or to commit physical violence, only to have created the perception of imminent violence. ]([http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/09/12/double-murder-charges-dismissed-under-fl-stand-your-ground-self-defense-law/](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/09/12/double-murder-charges-dismissed-under-fl-stand-your-ground-self-defense-law/)) Got hit with popcorn? Legally I believe that qualifies as a missile, and it surely meets the requirement of providing “the perception of imminent violence”. Mr. Reeves will walk. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/125 "2014-01-15T19:33:56Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I can’t agree. The only things more annoying at movies than texting are crucifixtions. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > But those are often more entertaining than the movie. That may be, but the crucifixion will ruin the movie before I have a chance to judge it. Personally, I think crucifying someone from a movie should be punishable by crucifixion. And since the movie’s already ruined by the first crucifixion, may as well go ahead and do the second right on the spot. But a bonus for other crucifiers in the audience, all subsequent crucifixions during the scheduled run time of the movie are freebies. Once the movie is spoiled, people out to get _some_ entertainment! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/126 "2014-01-15T19:50:19Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Got hit with popcorn? Legally I believe that qualifies as a missile, and it surely meets the requirement of providing “the perception of imminent violence”. > > Mr. Reeves will walk. It took me a bit to find it, but yeah, under Florida law (and that of many other states) the popcorn and/or the box it was in could be considered a missile. Even if the court finds that to not be the case, it’s going to be impossible to convince a judge or jury that under FL law, that didn’t create “the perception of imminent violence”. [ > [@](#): > > “Soda Can” can be a deadly missile > > November 25, 2008 > Topic: Criminal > The 1st DCA recently upheld a conviction for aggravated battery where a defendant threw a soda can out of a moving vehicle, hitting the alleged victim in the head. The victim was riding a motor scooter down the road in Nassau county when the defendant allegedly leaned out of a van and hit the victim with the can, and proceeded to “flip off” the victim. The court ruled that a soda can could be a deadly missile and that the conviction for under Florida Statute 784.045, specfically 784.045(1)(a)2. Addtionally, the Defendant was guilty of wantonly and maliciously shooting or throwing a missile, hurled object or stone under Florida Statute 790.19. > The case is reported at 33 Fla. L. Weekly D2667a in the Florida Law Weekly. ]([http://www.jacksonvillelegalblogs.com/tp-081009132116/post-081125130513.shtml](http://www.jacksonvillelegalblogs.com/tp-081009132116/post-081125130513.shtml)) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/127 "2014-01-15T20:00:34Z")
I guess we’ll have to see how this case gets decided. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/128 "2014-01-15T20:07:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I guess we’ll have to see how this case gets decided. Aye. Grab a lawn chair and set down. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/129 "2014-01-15T20:25:48Z")
my first thought when hearing about this: this is Florida, where the defense will likely invoke their little-known “Shield Your Eyes” law, which allows use of deadly force when confronted with distracting, temporarily blinding light ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/130 "2014-01-15T20:36:07Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I can’t agree. The only things more annoying at movies than texting are crucifixtions. Duh, you do them out in front of the theater as a warning to others. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/131 "2014-01-15T21:31:43Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Duh, you do them out in front of the theater as a warning to others. Hell, hang 'em on the wall inside. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/132 "2014-01-15T22:30:52Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Count your blessings…imagine the chaos that would ensue here if the shooter had been threatened with an empty paper towel tube. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > It took me a bit to find it, but yeah, under Florida law (and that of many other states) the popcorn and/or the box it was in could be considered a missile. Even if the court finds that to not be the case, it’s going to be impossible to convince a judge or jury that under FL law, that didn’t create “the perception of imminent violence”. > > [url=[http://www.jacksonvillelegalblogs.com/tp-081009132116/post-081125130513.shtml](http://www.jacksonvillelegalblogs.com/tp-081009132116/post-081125130513.shtml)] You really don’t see the difference between a metal soda can thrown from a moving car and a box of popcorn thrown in someone’s face from a couple feet away? You are trying to generate outrage before there is even a hint of anything to be outraged by. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/133 "2014-01-15T23:10:08Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > You really don’t see the difference between a metal soda can thrown from a moving car and a box of popcorn thrown in someone’s face from a couple feet away? > > You are trying to generate outrage before there is even a hint of anything to be outraged by. A guy once threw a soda out his car window and hit the roof of mine. I could have shot the SOB in Florida? Kewl! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/134 "2014-01-15T23:21:53Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > You really don’t see the difference between a metal soda can thrown from a moving car and a box of popcorn thrown in someone’s face from a couple feet away? > > You are trying to generate outrage before there is even a hint of anything to be outraged by. In regards to Florida’s SYG law, no, there really isn’t a difference between a metal soda can and a box of popcorn, not if they caused Mr. Reeves to believe that violence was about to be unleashed in his direction. And yeah, legally both could be classified as missiles; any physical object can be a missile, AFAIK. I’m not tryin to generate outrage at all, but if I were it would be at something that does exist already and deserves outrage: Florida’s poorly written Stand Your Ground law. What I’m doing is looking at the evidence, looking at witness and perp statements and drawing a conclusion based on prior cases and then stating my opinion. You’re free to do the same, of course, and I’d be interested to see if yours differed from mine on Mr. Reeves and why. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/135 "2014-01-16T01:22:31Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It’s sort of inconsiderate to shoot someone like that and inconvenience the other patrons. I hope they got refunds. Are you kidding???:eek: I’d have paid twice the admission to see that! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/136 "2014-01-16T02:00:26Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Having the no weapons policy is going to keep the theatre from being a party in the wrongful death suit. Those little signs of “Acme enterprises bans guns in these premises” (or whatever they say in Florida) are going to save them tens of thousands in legal bills. Good point. I guess all theatres should have them (and schools, and malls, and workplaces,…) > [@madmonk28](#): > > Duh, you do them out in front of the theater as a warning to others. Another good point - if they don’t want this to be a senseless death, they should use it as an example of what NOT to do - people _really_ hate people messing with their cellphones in movie theatres. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/137 "2014-01-16T04:56:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > In regards to Florida’s SYG law, no, there really isn’t a difference between a metal soda can and a box of popcorn, not if they caused Mr. Reeves to believe that violence was about to be unleashed in his direction. And yeah, legally both could be classified as missiles; any physical object can be a missile, AFAIK. > > I’m not tryin to generate outrage at all, but if I were it would be at something that does exist already and deserves outrage: Florida’s poorly written Stand Your Ground law. > > What I’m doing is looking at the evidence, looking at witness and perp statements and drawing a conclusion based on prior cases and then stating my opinion. You’re free to do the same, of course, and I’d be interested to see if yours differed from mine on Mr. Reeves and why. You are incorrect. Even under Florida’s SYG law it is not enough that violence happens or a fear of violence. As Bricker helpfully showed in his cite there must be a reasonable fear for your life or serious bodily injury. Not simply violence. You make it seem like in Florida all you have to do is say some magic words and murder charges go away. If that were the case no one would be convicted of murder. That is far from the case, even in Florida. Your soda can cite isn’t relevant to this case. It wasn’t a stand your ground case. It was a ruling which stated in that case the factors were enough to make the elements of the crime of aggregated assault instead of simple assault. In that case the defendant threw a soda can from a moving vehicle hitting a motorbike rider in the head. Yes that is a potentially deadly act. In a way that throwing popcorn at a standing person is not. No they are not the same. The potential for injury is not the same. If I throw a rock at your head I could be charged with aggregated assault. If I throw a marshmallow at you I won’t. Even in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/138 "2014-01-16T05:01:50Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > You are incorrect. Even under Florida’s SYG law it is not enough that violence happens or a fear of violence. As Bricker helpfully showed in his cite there must be a reasonable fear for your life or serious bodily injury. Not simply violence. You make it seem like in Florida all you have to do is say some magic words and murder charges go away. If that were the case no one would be convicted of murder. That is far from the case, even in Florida. > > Your soda can cite isn’t relevant to this case. It wasn’t a stand your ground case. It was a ruling which stated in that case the factors were enough to make the elements of the crime of aggregated assault instead of simple assault. In that case the defendant threw a soda can from a moving vehicle hitting a motorbike rider in the head. Yes that is a potentially deadly act. In a way that throwing popcorn at a standing person is not. No they are not the same. The potential for injury is not the same. If I throw a rock at your head I could be charged with aggregated assault. If I throw a marshmallow at you I won’t. Even in Florida. Sure, dude. All those other cases I linked to don’t mean a thing, I’m sure. I mean, you’re the expert, right? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/139 "2014-01-16T05:32:12Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Sure, dude. All those other cases I linked to don’t mean a thing, I’m sure. I mean, you’re the expert, right? We are talking about the law. Not the imperfect application of such laws at times by flawed people. I’m pretty sure OJ killed two people and got away with it. It happens. But at this time there is absolutely no indication that this is going any way other than how it should. Certainly things can take unexpected turns and I may prove to be wrong in the end. And dude, I may not be an expert but I am pretty familiar with the practical application of criminal law. Feel free to explain your level of expertise so we can better understand each other’s point of view. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717/140 "2014-01-16T05:58:31Z")
Keeping this guy in jail will be expensive. I’m pretty sure he’ll have to be kept in protective custody. Ex cops don’t last long in lockup. If his health deteriorates then he’ll be in the medical ward. He still needs to be prosecuted. But keeping him in jail or prison will get expensive. Medical care for elderly prisoners is becoming a big problem in all the prisons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-movie-theater-shooting-leaves-one-dead-in-altercation-over-texting/678717.md?page=8)