# Florida Primary 03/15/2016 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 21, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666 "2016-02-21T03:01:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/61 "2016-03-10T14:05:29Z")
Not sure how much is applicable to Floridians in particular, but it seems to me: Rubio has no message that people want to hear. What’s his number one issue? His exchange with Christie in that debate was a mortal wound. You don’t answer a charge of repeating the same sentence over and over by repeating it one more time. His going after Trump as being the guy with tiny hands that pees his pants really turned people off. When you look like you haven’t passed puberty, the last thing you need to do is act juvenile. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/62 "2016-03-10T14:50:37Z")
Which raises the question: how best to respond to the bullying of a demagogue in a political arena. If it was the playground pushing back might work. Not here. Not unless you can do it with much more wit and effective mockery than anything anyone else has shown so far. Few are going to be quick enough to pull that one off. The opportune moment was when it began, then those candidates who were bystanders could have, in a cohesive voice, stated that bullying is not our way. But that approach fails when you only say it when you are the target and you stand passively when the target is the other (candidate, group, whatever). Righteous indignation? Fails. It is still letting the bully be in control over what gets discussed and when. So what? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/63 "2016-03-10T15:01:13Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > _ **DISCLAIMER: I skimmed this thread and didn’t see this answered, so if someone already addressed this and I missed it, I’m sorry and please just point to the post.** _ > > From what I’ve been reading, it looks like Rubio is likely to lose Florida. But I haven’t found a whole lot of information as to why he’s so likely to lose his home state. The most likely reason I can think of is that Florida residents don’t like how many Senate votes he’s missed. I can’t imagine why else someone would be popular enough to be voted into office, and then unpopular enough to not be supported in the presidential election. Particularly someone like Rubio, who hasn’t even done that much (good or bad) in his term as senator. Thoughts? He’s not losing because of anything he himself is or isn’t, he’s losing because Trump is in it. If Trump were out, Rubio could probably beat Cruz in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/64 "2016-03-10T15:07:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > He’s not losing because of anything he himself is or isn’t, he’s losing because Trump is in it. If Trump were out, Rubio could probably beat Cruz in Florida. Well if that’s the case, then how come Rubio is the only one who seems likely to lose his state? Cruz won his state, and last I saw, Kasich was poised to win his state. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/65 "2016-03-10T15:49:06Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > Well if that’s the case, then how come Rubio is the only one who seems likely to lose his state? Cruz won his state, and last I saw, Kasich was poised to win his state. I dunno, I guess there are more Trump-favorable demographics here. Also, Kasich is a governor, which is a more high-profile thing than a senator, at least his state’s residents are likely to recognize his name. And Cruz has high name recognition because he has spent his entire term in the Senate flamboyantly espousing the Texas-crazy. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/66 "2016-03-10T16:06:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Which raises the question: how best to respond to the bullying of a demagogue in a political arena. > > If it was the playground pushing back might work. Not here. Not unless you can do it with much more wit and effective mockery than anything anyone else has shown so far. Few are going to be quick enough to pull that one off. > > The opportune moment was when it began, then those candidates who were bystanders could have, in a cohesive voice, stated that bullying is not our way. But that approach fails when you only say it when you are the target and you stand passively when the target is the other (candidate, group, whatever). > > Righteous indignation? Fails. It is still letting the bully be in control over what gets discussed and when. > > So what? Good question. I would be guided by this principle: Trump followers cannot be converted. Don’t waste your time trying. What they should do is focus on what their core supporters want to see and hear. If Trump attacks in a debate, you respond by saying that you don’t want to descend to his level. You attack him by attacking his policies and his lack of understanding. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/67 "2016-03-10T16:12:43Z")
I was not living in Florida when Rubio was elected. Nor was I thinking about moving to FL 5-1/2 years ago. Since I did move here 2 years ago I had never heard word one in the local media about Rubio until he started making noises about running for President. And since then the only context he’s ever mentioned in is the Presidential race. He’s otherwise completely invisible around here. Admittedly, I live in the epicenter of the D part of Florida. The R bastion is elsewhere. So he may have been the focus for a lot of newspaper hagiography for the last 6 years out there for all I know. But around here he’s not much more notable than I am. Which is to say zero. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/68 "2016-03-10T16:17:15Z")
As to counter-demagoguery: The other future counter-demagogue move is for the news media to step up to their role as the 4th estate and say they will not facilitate that kind of BS masquerading as campaigning. In pro sports, whenever a fan runs onto the field the one thing the media will NEVER do is put a camera on the runner on the air. Cameras will follow him for evidence gathering purposes, but that signal doesn’t go to the jumbotron nor out over the air. It’s real effective at denying the jerks an audience. If during the debates Trump’s mike switched off & the camera panned away as soon as he started a personal attack, the game would be very different. It really is that simple. The R party can insist that no entity may carry a sanctioned debate unless it agrees to this ground rule. None of this prevents scurrilous attack ads or the Trump infomercials masquerading as interviews. But it can sure eliminate the clear implication that the R party thinks this kind of BS is “acceptable politics as normal”. IMO it’s neither acceptable nor normal. For either party. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/69 "2016-03-10T16:24:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Latest RealClearPolitics poll has Clinton ahead of Sanders in Florida by 25.6 points.](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/fl/florida_democratic_presidential_primary-3556.html) I don’t remember the exact twenty-something-percent figure Clinton was ahead by in the Michigan polls – is this one higher or lower? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/70 "2016-03-10T16:37:01Z")
That link shows a +31 average for Clinton in Florida. She was average +21 just before the Michigan primary. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/71 "2016-03-10T16:43:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Good question. I would be guided by this principle: Trump followers cannot be converted. Don’t waste your time trying. What they should do is focus on what their core supporters want to see and hear. If Trump attacks in a debate, you respond by saying that you don’t want to descend to his level. You attack him by attacking his policies and his lack of understanding. I’d say that Trump’s biggest asset in the debates isn’t that he brazenly lies in between simply refusing to give specifics answers; he _does_ both of those things, but they can be dealt with. His biggest asset is that he simply interrupts his opponents, which makes it All Trump All The Time. A lie is no big deal if you can point it out. An evasion is no big deal if you can point it out. Not being able to point stuff out _is_ a big deal, because you can’t point it out. After the first debate, the need for a sunny but forceful opening statement should’ve been clear: we all have a lot to say, we’ll each have chances to respond – and anyone who can win on the ideas will do that. And anyone who interrupts is a clown trying avoid a debate on the merits. And any would-be president who can’t keep his mouth shut when grown-ups are talking can’t be our pointman with other heads of state. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/72 "2016-03-10T16:49:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > He’s not losing because of anything he himself is or isn’t, he’s losing because Trump is in it. If Trump were out, Rubio could probably beat Cruz in Florida. And if a frog had wings, he wouldn’t bump his tail. What you’re missing, IMHO, is the fact that Rubio’s had six years to be a Senator in a way that would have instilled confidence in him in the minds of his constituents. But he hasn’t. If Floridians had a high opinion of Rubio going into the primary season, it would be a harder task for even a Trump to beat him in his own back yard. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I dunno, I guess there are more Trump-favorable demographics here. Also, Kasich is a governor, which is a more high-profile thing than a senator, at least his state’s residents are likely to recognize his name. And Cruz has high name recognition because he has spent his entire term in the Senate flamboyantly espousing the Texas-crazy. I think you’re grasping at straws. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/73 "2016-03-10T16:57:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Good question. I would be guided by this principle: Trump followers cannot be converted. Don’t waste your time trying. What they should do is focus on what their core supporters want to see and hear. If Trump attacks in a debate, you respond by saying that you don’t want to descend to his level. You attack him by attacking his policies and his lack of understanding. But they really can’t attack his policies, nobody on that stage disagrees very much on policy. They are just better at lying about it, sugar coating it and pretending they are not as extreme, but Trump is not saying anything new. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/74 "2016-03-10T17:12:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’d say that Trump’s biggest asset in the debates isn’t that he brazenly lies in between simply refusing to give specifics answers; he _does_ both of those things, but they can be dealt with. His biggest asset is that he simply interrupts his opponents, which makes it All Trump All The Time. > > A lie is no big deal if you can point it out. An evasion is no big deal if you can point it out. Not being able to point stuff out _is_ a big deal, because you can’t point it out. > > After the first debate, the need for a sunny but forceful opening statement should’ve been clear: we all have a lot to say, we’ll each have chances to respond – and anyone who can win on the ideas will do that. And anyone who interrupts is a clown trying avoid a debate on the merits. And any would-be president who can’t keep his mouth shut when grown-ups are talking can’t be our pointman with other heads of state. How about: Any candidate who interrupts another will be immediately escorted out of the building and may not participate in the remainder of the debate. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/75 "2016-03-10T18:06:45Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > As to counter-demagoguery: > > The other future counter-demagogue move is for the news media to step up to their role as the 4th estate and say they will not facilitate that kind of BS masquerading as campaigning. > > In pro sports, whenever a fan runs onto the field the one thing the media will NEVER do is put a camera on the runner on the air. Cameras will follow him for evidence gathering purposes, but that signal doesn’t gs. go to the jumbotron nor out over the air. It’s real effective at denying the jerks an audience. > > If during the debates Trump’s mike switched off & the camera panned away as soon as he started a personal attack, the game would be very different. > > It really is that simple. The R party can insist that no entity may carry a sanctioned debate unless it agrees to this ground rule. > > None of this prevents scurrilous attack ads or the Trump infomercials masquerading as interviews. But it can sure eliminate the clear implication that the R party thinks this kind of BS is “acceptable politics as normal”. IMO it’s neither acceptable nor normal. For either party. The media cares about cash. They get cash via advertisers and ratings. What makes you think the media were ever objective? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/76 "2016-03-10T19:15:00Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [The scene from Hialeah.](https://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/cnn-reveals-sad-state-of-rubio-campaign-stadium-rally-on-his-home-turf-draws-next-to-nobody/) My God, if I was running an anti-Rubio campaign, I’d have those pictures on every social media website I could reach, saying “This is what Marco Rubio wants you to think of his support” (show close-in shot) and “This is the real truth” (show empty stands). It would (IMHO) be absolutely devastating. The only question now is how Rubio presents himself at the debate tonight; Mean Marco, Dignified Marco, Rude Marco, Strong Marco…most likely Out-Of-His-Depth Marco. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/77 "2016-03-10T19:18:40Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > My God, if I was running an anti-Rubio campaign, I’d have those pictures on every social media website I could reach, saying “This is what Marco Rubio wants you to think of his support” (show close-in shot) and “This is the real truth” (show empty stands). It would (IMHO) be absolutely devastating. > . Those empty stands may well be a lie. That sort of thing is used a lot, often, even if the picture is technically “true” it’s from after most of the rally is done, or before it really gets started or a section of the stands not being used. I have seen the same sort of pics used vs Clinton, Trump, etc. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/78 "2016-03-10T19:26:03Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > The only question now is how Rubio presents himself at the debate tonight; Mean Marco, Dignified Marco, Rude Marco, Strong Marco…most likely Out-Of-His-Depth Marco. Let’s dispel once and for all with the fiction that Marco doesn’t know how to present himself; he knows _exactly_ how to present himself. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/79 "2016-03-10T19:28:18Z")
Doesn’t matter what Rubio tries; Trump will call him “Little Marco” again if he feels threatened, and _that’s_ what will stick. Lately Trump’s been simply dismissive of him, though - and that’s probably even worse. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666/80 "2016-03-10T21:39:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The media cares about cash. They get cash via advertisers and ratings. What makes you think the media were ever objective? Read my words again. I never suggested they were objective. I do suggest they have been more mature and substantive in the past. I was there to see it. Cynicism is certainly the common currency these days and it’s not wholly unwarranted. But to assert the media as a whole have zero journalism left in them and are simply infomercial shills from end to end is a bit over the top. It’s even more over the top to assert A) it was ever thus, and B) it’s inconceivable it could ever be any better than totally 100% awful. Which seems to be the main theme of your various posts today. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-primary-03-15-2016/746666.md?page=5)