# Florida Principal says he "can't say the Holocaust was real" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709 "2019-07-08T13:51:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/61 "2019-07-09T15:14:48Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > (Ignore the act? above) > > Sure. The mentioned “slavery was the cause of the Civil War” is very controversial - not at all by the way among Historians who take it as established fact (you can always find someone who disagrees, but its like climate change, the vast majority of American Historians believe slavery was the primary - and perhaps the only - cause of the Civil War). But so are things like the Indian Wars (A very good friend of mine and I get into it every year on the anniversary of the Mankato hangings - he’s a descendant of one of the Natives who was pardoned, I’m a descendant of some of the German homesteaders who were missed in the slaughter.) Was Andrew Jackson a good or bad President? Vietnam. Should we teach about the Chinese Exclusion Act or the Japanese Internment? How much time should be dedicated to what topics? > > How about another fact that is overlooked - Lincoln had no intention of freeing the slaves when he took office. Stating such tends to tarnish the image of Lincoln, so its often left out. The controversial nature of the way history is taught – and WHAT history is taught – is the very point of James Loewen’s now-classic book **Lies my Teacher Told Me**. That it extends beyond textbooks to public signs and markers was the Loewen’s follow-up, **Lies Across America**. I highly recommend both books. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/62 "2019-07-09T15:51:25Z")
You can say that the Civil War was about the economy… The South was poor and they felt that losing a slave labor force would make it worse. You can say that it was about states’ rights… Specifically the right to own slaves. You can say it was about a lot of things, but it was still about slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/63 "2019-07-09T17:02:25Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > You can say that it was about states’ rights… Specifically the right to own slaves. And the right to force Free states to hunt down and return runaway slaves. “I support rights only for the states which support slavery” kinda puts the lie to the idea that “State’s Rights” was really on their minds. But we know what was on their minds, as they told us multiple times, first in [the Cornerstone Speech, given by the Vice President of the CSA](https://www.owleyes.org/text/the-cornerstone-speech/read/text-of-stephenss-speech#root-44), and then [in the declarations the individual Confederate states made about why they were seceding](https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states); in both cases, slavery is named as the primary reason, over and over, and saying otherwise is being complicit in an old, old lie called [The Lost Cause of the Confederacy](https://www.nps.gov/resources/story.htm%3Fid%3D217) which has been forced into our school system by administrators like the one we’re talking about being unable to risk offending the people who need to be offended, and by textbook sellers being unwilling to risk reduced sales in states like Texas. It isn’t complicated, any more than it’s somehow “complicated” whether the Nazis gassed homosexuals, Roma, Slavs, and Jews in death camps during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/64 "2019-07-09T19:02:18Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > The controversial nature of the way history is taught – and WHAT history is taught – is the very point of James Loewen’s now-classic book **Lies my Teacher Told Me**. > > That it extends beyond textbooks to public signs and markers was the Loewen’s follow-up, **Lies Across America**. I highly recommend both books. I’ve been meaning to read this - you’ve pushed it to the top of my list. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/65 "2019-07-09T20:53:24Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I guess you could support Israel and hate the people there…? Why, sure you can. If your Christian sect places a lot of stock in the book Revelations, then Israel’s existence is very critical. When Israel is attacked, the apocalypse is kicked off and God’s judgment will be forthcoming shortly. No Israel, no apocalypse, and no Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. I forget whether or not the third temple has to be built first. If so, that would be a good reason for fundamentalists to want to see Israel take full possession of Jerusalem. None of this means you have to love Jews or even not hate them for rejecting Jesus. Head cheese or the Bible? I’m not sure which is more disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/66 "2019-07-09T21:35:14Z")
> [@TimfromNapa](#): > > Why, sure you can. If your Christian sect places a lot of stock in the book Revelations, then Israel’s existence is very critical. When Israel is attacked, the apocalypse is kicked off and God’s judgment will be forthcoming shortly. No Israel, no apocalypse, and no Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. I forget whether or not the third temple has to be built first. If so, that would be a good reason for fundamentalists to want to see Israel take full possession of Jerusalem. None of this means you have to love Jews or even not hate them for rejecting Jesus. Head cheese or the Bible? I’m not sure which is more disgusting. As a Christian myself I certainly don’t find the Bible disgusting. 🙂 But many things people do or say, supposedly inspired or guided by it, are truly disgusting. It’s far too easy to twist scripture to fit whatever sick hatred or fear you have, and use it as an excuse to harm people. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/67 "2019-07-09T23:39:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I guess you could support Israel and hate the people there…? The way the belief works is that Israel is necessary for the Rapture and what comes beyond, but that the only people in Israel who will make it to heaven are those who convert after realizing Jesus really is the Messiah. So any who actually still believe in Judaism (or, worse, _atheism_) will still go to hell. So they support Israel existing as a nation-state, as well as for it to expand to its Biblical borders. But they don’t actually support the people of Israel as they are now, and believe they will go to hell unless they happen to survive until Jesus comes back and repent. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/68 "2019-07-10T00:17:03Z")
Well, it is a true historical fact that some people have denied the Holocaust happened, just like there is clear historical evidence that some people believe slavery was not the primary cause of the US Civil War and that there are some people who deny that humans are causing Earth’s climate to change. I don’t think he said anything about whether those people are right, but just that they exist. Perhaps the level of metathinking involved was not clear enough, and everyone assumes that there was none. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/69 "2019-07-10T00:20:00Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > What I read into it was a joke that fell flat. I personally am a round joke-r. Falling flat, indeed. Be you learned that in one of _those_ schools. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/70 "2019-07-10T00:23:49Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > Well, it is a true historical fact that some people have denied the Holocaust happened, just like there is clear historical evidence that some people believe slavery was not the primary cause of the US Civil War and that there are some people who deny that humans are causing Earth’s climate to change. I don’t think he said anything about whether those people are right, but just that they exist. Perhaps the level of metathinking involved was not clear enough, and everyone assumes that there was none. And some people believe the moon landing was faked. And that the earth is flat. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/71 "2019-07-10T20:20:01Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Remember that the Flying Spaghetti Monster was invented by a Florida public school teacher in response to being told he must ‘teach that the big bang was just a theory and share alternate theories’. 'Twas Kansas, not Florida and the founder was not a school teacher, but rather a [concerned citizen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster#History). ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/72 "2019-07-10T20:36:46Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > As a Christian myself I certainly don’t find the Bible disgusting. 🙂 > > But many things people do or say, supposedly inspired or guided by it, are truly disgusting. It’s far too easy to twist scripture to fit whatever sick hatred or fear you have, and use it as an excuse to harm people. ☹ Take a look back into the Old Testament and you might change your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/73 "2019-07-10T23:22:08Z")
> [@TimfromNapa](#): > > Take a look back into the Old Testament and you might change your mind. Oh golly, I’ve never read that part before! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/74 "2019-07-11T20:29:44Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The mother should have written back asking if he was in a position to determine if American slavery as a factual episode in American history. I mean, not everyone believes slavery actually happened, and many slaves were apparently treated better than the masters’ own children. :rolleyes: Could be that, in some cases, the slaves were the only children that the master was certain were his. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/75 "2019-07-11T20:38:01Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > 'Twas Kansas, not Florida and the founder was not a school teacher, but rather a [concerned citizen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster#History). And it wasn’t spaghetti, it was rigatoni. ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/76 "2019-07-11T20:49:40Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Oh golly, I’ve never read that part before! :rolleyes: Well then, if the mass genocide (among other things) “chronicled” there did not disgust you than you have a much higher tolerance than I do. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/77 "2019-07-11T20:56:50Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Oh golly, I’ve never read that part before! :rolleyes: > [@TimfromNapa](#): > > Well then, if the mass genocide (among other things) “chronicled” there did not disgust you than you have a much higher tolerance than I do. I think that was sarcasm. Note the eyeroll. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/78 "2019-07-11T21:38:03Z")
> [@TimfromNapa](#): > > Well then, if the mass genocide (among other things) “chronicled” there did not disgust you than you have a much higher tolerance than I do. Yes, not everything in the Bible is perfect. I’m not a fundamentalist that calls the entire book inviolate. I mean, I eat shellfish after all and don’t think homosexuality is an abomination. But there’s a big difference between saying that parts of it may be objectionable, and dismissing the entire tome as “disgusting”. ---
**Author:** ![kjkolb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ec8ea/32.png) [@kjkolb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kjkolb)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/79 "2019-07-12T08:17:25Z")
I am not saying that I agree or disagree with anything, except for the fact that the Holocaust happened. I did not read the whole thread, either. However, just make sure that you do not go too far when you are teaching children about the tragedy of the Holocaust. I had a terrible, and terribly lazy, teacher for World History in high school who subjected us to at least a week of footage of the horrific state of the survivors of the concentration camps (back when that was five back to back days of 49-minute class, which was nicely taught right before lunch). I think it was raw footage, as I do not remember any narrative. He popped in the videos as we were entering class and did nothing but sit at his desk and visit the teacher’s lounge for the remaining time. While he was there, we were not allowed to look away. If I recall correctly, almost all of the films were silent, with writing to indicate what camp it was and such. To this day, I do not engage in discussion of the Holocaust because I get brain images of the walking skeletons, and it still makes me want to literally puke. You will get better results with less draconian methods than subjecting sophomores to 245-stomach churning minutes of real Holocaust footage, in my opinion. Such over-exposure can desensitize. You may also create messed up children who start to hate the very victims with such an over the top method, thus having the opposite of the intended effect. Fortunately, I personally just got the puking thing. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/80 "2019-07-12T15:57:39Z")
> [@kjkolb](#): > > I am not saying that I agree or disagree with anything, except for the fact that the Holocaust happened. I did not read the whole thread, either. > > However, just make sure that you do not go too far when you are teaching children about the tragedy of the Holocaust. I had a terrible, and terribly lazy, teacher for World History in high school who subjected us to at least a week of footage of the horrific state of the survivors of the concentration camps (back when that was five back to back days of 49-minute class, which was nicely taught right before lunch). I think it was raw footage, as I do not remember any narrative. He popped in the videos as we were entering class and did nothing but sit at his desk and visit the teacher’s lounge for the remaining time. While he was there, we were not allowed to look away. If I recall correctly, almost all of the films were silent, with writing to indicate what camp it was and such. To this day, I do not engage in discussion of the Holocaust because I get brain images of the walking skeletons, and it still makes me want to literally puke. You will get better results with less draconian methods than subjecting sophomores to 245-stomach churning minutes of real Holocaust footage, in my opinion. > > Such over-exposure can desensitize. You may also create messed up children who start to hate the very victims with such an over the top method, thus having the opposite of the intended effect. Fortunately, I personally just got the puking thing. I can’t believe that teacher was allowed to get away with such lazy, irresponsible teaching. While high schoolers are certainly old enough to endure some of that raw footage, the sheer overkill – with a complete lack of context, explanation or discussion about the whys and hows – would eventually have the opposite of its intended effect. As you’ve noted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709.md?page=5)