# Florida Principal says he "can't say the Holocaust was real" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709 "2019-07-08T13:51:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/101 "2021-10-15T19:03:48Z")
Is there any evidence that this administrator is a conservative? There is substantial anti-semitism on the progressive left, especially among progressive African-Americans. And school administrators are much more likely to come from the left. > [@BigT](#): > > The way the belief works is that Israel is necessary for the Rapture and what comes beyond, but that the only people in Israel who will make it to heaven are those who convert after realizing Jesus really is the Messiah. So any who actually still believe in Judaism (or, worse, _atheism_ ) will still go to hell. Where are you getting this from? I have attended many evangelical/baptist churches, and never heard this. What we were taught is that the Jews are God’s chosen people, and Jesus came to Earth to extend the promise of heaven to non-Jews through accepting Jesus into their heart. Jews are the only ones who get to go to heaven by following the Old Trstament (Torah). ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/102 "2021-10-15T19:08:50Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Looking at the photos, I’m surprised that it’s a black guy who is saying this. I would have expected it to be a Caucasian white supremacist. Why would you think that? First of all, not a lot of white supremacists make it to be administrators in the public school system. Second, Black people are much more likely to be anti-semitic: > [@](#): > > According to surveys that were begun in 1964 by the [Anti-Defamation League](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League), a Jewish organization, [African Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans) are significantly more likely to hold antisemitic beliefs than [white Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans) are. There is a strong correlation between higher education levels and the rejection of anti-Semitic stereotypes among members of all races, but black Americans of all educational levels are significantly more likely to be anti-Semitic than whites with the same educational level.[[91]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American%E2%80%93Jewish_relations#cite_note-adl.org-92) > > In the 1998 survey, blacks (34%) were nearly four times as likely as whites (9%) to have answers that identified them as belonging in the most anti-Semitic category (those agreeing with at least 6 out of 11 statements that were potentially or clearly antisemitic). > **[African American–Jewish relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American%E2%80%93Jewish_relations#Anti-Semitism_among_African_Americans)** > > African Americans and Jewish Americans have interacted throughout much of the history of the United States. This relationship has included widely publicized cooperation and conflict, and—since the 1970s—it has been an area of significant academic research. Cooperation during the Civil Rights Movement was strategic and significant, culminating in the Civil Rights Act of 1964. > The relationship has also featured conflicts and controversies which are related to such topics as the Black Power movem... ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/103 "2021-10-15T19:13:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Where are you getting this from? I mean, it’s not unheard of: > **[Opinion | Stop Gaslighting The Left About Evangelicals. They Believe Awful...](https://forward.com/opinion/431687/stop-gaslighting-the-left-about-christians-they-believe-awful-things-about/)** > > One cannot achieve a healthy religious pluralism by pretending that robust mutual respect for religious diversity exists where it does not Read the “[Eschatology](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/politics-and-religion/article/why-do-evangelicals-support-israel/F8AB8C41F0B019FD8413A30EF218EBE4)” section: > —Evangelicals adhere to a Christian school of thought called pre-millennial dispensationalism. According to this philosophy, the second coming of Christ is an imminent event that will take place in several stages. In the first stage, Jesus will reappear in heaven, but will not descend to earth. In heaven, he will meet the true believers—those who were “born again” by adopting Christ as their personal savior. In an act known as “the rapture,” these believers will be miraculously drawn up to Jesus from the earth, while true believers who died prior to the appearance of the Messiah will be resurrected from the dead and join Jesus. All of this is expected to happen in the near future, although evangelical writings do not provide a specific timeframe in most cases. For Jews, this will be “a time of trouble for Jacob” (Jer. 30:7). Despite returning to their homeland, prior to or during this period, Jews will be considered “lacking in faith” because they will not have accepted Christ as their Messiah (Boyer [1992](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/politics-and-religion/article/why-do-evangelicals-support-israel/F8AB8C41F0B019FD8413A30EF218EBE4#ref9), 254–90). ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/104 "2021-10-15T20:21:49Z")
I went to evangelical chirches through my entire childhood and early teen years, including bible study classes and all the rest, and I have never heard that. Maybe this is some southern US local thing, or some subset of evangelicals I don’t know. I have seen a lot of bigotry against various groups from those people, but never anti-semitism. Jews were God’s chosen people, and off limits. In fact, almost all the anti-semitism I have personally run into came from the progressive left, as a byproduct of their support for Palestinians and dislike of Jews for their more capitalist nature. The Democrats tolerate open anti-semites in Congress such as Rashiba Tlaib and Ilhan Omar and Ayanna Pressley. The Nation of Islam and the Black Hebrew Israelites are examples of explicitly anti-semitic groups that are still tolerated as allies on the left. And given that the school system now is about 90% Democrats, and that black anti-semitism is much more widespread and common than white anti-semitism, I’m not sure why anyone would assume that a school,admimistrator hinting at anti-semitism would be a white supremicist. That said, this particular guy could be on the right or the left. I haven’t seen any evidence suggesting his poliitcal orientation, and group characteristics should not be applied to individuals. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/105 "2021-10-15T20:36:02Z")
Withdrawn ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/106 "2021-10-15T21:01:13Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > In fact, almost all the anti-semitism I have personally run into came from the progressive left, as a byproduct of their support for Palestinians and dislike of Jews for their more capitalist nature. The Democrats tolerate open anti-semites in Congress such as Rashiba Tlaib and Ilhan Omar and Ayanna Pressley. The Nation of Islam and the Black Hebrew Israelites are examples of explicitly anti-semitic groups that are still tolerated as allies on the left. Remind me again - was it Rashida Tlaib or Ilhan Omar who said Californian wildfires were started by Jewish space lasers? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/107 "2021-10-15T21:06:59Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > In fact, almost all the anti-semitism I have personally run into came from the progressive left, as a byproduct of their support for Palestinians and dislike of Jews for their more capitalist nature. I think you’ve led a sheltered life in this respect. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Maybe this is some southern US local thing, or some subset of evangelicals I don’t know. It’s by no means a “southern US local thing”. Nothing is “local” about it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/108 "2021-10-15T21:09:36Z")
It wasn’t Omar or Talib chanting “Jews will not replace us!”, or praising those who so chanted. Us Jews know who the real threat has been. It’s always and overwhelmingly been from the right. It wasn’t leftists that my grandmother and her family were running from when they escaped Germany in the 30s. There is some antisemitism on the left, but it’s utterly dwarfed, both in quality and quantity, by that in the right. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/109 "2021-10-15T21:22:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And given that the school system now is about 90% Democrats, and that black anti-semitism is much more widespread and common than white anti-semitism I mean, even if this was demonstrably true - I don’t dispute that there are black anti-semites - by sheer proportion of population and socio-political impact, it’s virtually impossible that I have more to fear from a black anti-semite than a white anti-semite. And I have a personal history of violence both with the latter as well as pro-Palestinian anti-semitism. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/110 "2021-10-15T21:33:16Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And given that the school system now is about 90% Democrats Because you say so? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/111 "2021-10-15T21:44:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Because you say so? > **[Why Are Teachers Mostly Liberal? - Pacific Research Institute](https://www.pacificresearch.org/why-are-teachers-mostly-liberal/)** > > The wave of teacher strikes across the country, with their focus on killing education reforms such as charter schools, have focused attention on the ideology of teachers.  Many Americans are now asking: “Why are teachers so liberal?” Tom... > [@](#): > > Tom Rademacher, a Minnesota teacher of the year who [writes for the _Education Post_](https://educationpost.org/one-of-my-most-conservative-students-shares-what-its-like-to-be-in-my-class/), says that teachers “are mostly liberals,” and the evidence backs him up. > > [_The Washington Post_](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/03/why-your-flight-attendant-is-probably-a-democrat/?utm_term=.527beff2c4f3)reported on research, conducted by [Verdant Labs](https://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/index.html) using political-contribution data, on the Democrat-Republican divide based on job type. > > While it unsurprising that among actors and actresses there are 90 Democrats for every 10 Republicans, many would be amazed to discover that teachers are actually as liberal or even more so than those in acting. > > Among English teachers, there are 97 Democrats for every three Republicans, with the proportion being even more one-sided among health teachers, with 99 Democrats for every one Republican. > > While there are slightly more Republicans among math and science teachers, among high school teachers overall, there are 87 Democrats for every 13 Republicans. Not only are teachers overwhelmingly Democrats (or liberals in Canada), when polled on the issues they are not only to the left of the average American, they are also to the left of the average Democrat. They are, in fact, one of the most left-wing large cohorts in America. Still beat by humanities professors, but not by much. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/112 "2021-10-15T22:31:50Z")
So a right wing think tank and the people that make a baby-naming app say so? edited to add: _made_ a baby-naming app. That article is from 2015, and Verdant Labs doesn’t seem to exist any more. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/113 "2021-10-15T22:36:46Z")
The source article is in the Washington Post, but I didn’t link to it because it’s paywalled. The research is a simple tally of contributions to political parties by teachers, which is public knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/114 "2021-10-15T22:52:40Z")
IIRC antisemitism is heavily correlated with a lack of education; without some strong actual evidence, claims that educators are more likely to be antisemitic are just random internet noise. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/115 "2021-10-15T23:12:10Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Is there any evidence that this administrator is a conservative? There is substantial anti-semitism on the progressive left, especially among progressive African-Americans. And school administrators are much more likely to come from the left. > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > The way the belief works is that Israel is necessary for the Rapture and what comes beyond, but that the only people in Israel who will make it to heaven are those who convert after realizing Jesus really is the Messiah. So any who actually still believe in Judaism (or, worse, _atheism_ ) will still go to hell. > > Where are you getting this from? I have attended many evangelical/baptist churches, and never heard this. What we were taught is that the Jews are God’s chosen people, and Jesus came to Earth to extend the promise of heaven to non-Jews through accepting Jesus into their heart. Jews are the only ones who get to go to heaven by following the Old Trstament (Torah). That’s a decent gloss of the belief, but it’s not very deep. The thing is, nothing you said actually contradicts what I said. Yes, they believe that Israel are God’s People. But they also believe that salvation comes through Jesus alone. The idea with the Old Covenant is that the most diligent and faithful followers of Judaism will eventually accept Jesus as the Messiah when he comes back. They’re looking forward to the Messiah rather than back. That’s the exception. The idea that the Old Covenant is keeping them doesn’t work because these Christians believe the blood sacrifice is necessary for salvation. So, without the Temple sacrifices, Jewish people have no way to have their sins cleansed. It’s only because of promises in Revelation about the tribes of Israel that they believe that Israel will be saved. And, even then, not necessarily everyone. They no more respect the more liberal branches of Judaism than they do the more liberal branches of Christianity. Plus they have no problem attempting to convert Jewish people, so they clearly do not think their salvation is assured by any of this. I didn’t just go to churches. I grew up in this mindset. I was one of these people. I’m telling the stuff I myself was actually taught. I only use third person because I don’t believe this anymore, even though I am still a Christian. Judaism is seen as inferior to Christianity by these people. It’s just that a Jewish person may possibly wind up saved due to God’s promise to Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/116 "2021-10-16T00:32:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I didn’t just go to churches. I grew up in this mindset. I was one of these people. I’m telling the stuff I myself was actually taught. I only use third person because I don’t believe this anymore, even though I am still a Christian. > > Judaism is seen as inferior to Christianity by these people. It’s just that a Jewish person may possibly wind up saved due to God’s promise to Israel. I grew up in it as well. I even taught Sunday school for a while, and my family is full of pastors, missionaries etc. Half of them went to Christian colleges and got degrees in religion. I’m now an atheist. I don’t have any axe to grind here, and am not defending the church. One of the reasons I lost my faith was the shitty behaviour of some of the church leaders. I don’t doubt your experience. But mine was that Jews were considered to be God’s chosen people, and they definitely did not need to come to Jesus and be saved. They were the only people on the planet granted entrance to heaven without being ‘saved’. God so decreed. Jesus came to Earth to extend God’s offer to Gentiles, so long as they accepted Jesus. So… I got curious and did some reading, and hoo boy Christians are all over the map on this. The Catholic church caused some controversy in 2015 by saying that Jews could get to heaven without believing in Jesus. The fact that it was controversial indicates that many Christians disagree. And the bible is contradictory, as usual. The common attribution for the special place in Heaven for Jews is Romans 11, verses 25-27: > [@](#): > > I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited:Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. > > As it is written: > > “The deliverer will come from Zion; > he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. > And this is my covenant with them > when I take away their sins.” I take it that means that all Israel will be saved because the Messiah (not Jesus) will open the hearts of all Jews and make them believers and God will take away their sins so they may enter heaven. Other sects on the other hand, can point to other passages in the New Testament that say no one may enter heaven except through Jesus, and some passages about Pharisees and money changers destined for Hell. So ot looks like we are both right, amd it depends on the church. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/117 "2021-10-16T03:21:48Z")
I happen to have worked at one time with one of the ministers at this church, and what he told me at lunch one day, is exactly what they say here: [Israel — Grace Community Church (gracearlington.com)](https://www.gracearlington.com/israel2) Which is in effect, what you said, @Sam_Stone. The way it was explained to me is that the original Covenant between God and the Jews was never revoked, and that it is still in effect for the Jewish people. The rest of us have to go the Christian route for salvation, as we’re not part of that original Covenant. Another thing for people to consider is that Evangelicals aren’t even as organized or coherent as Southern Baptists, much less more hierarchical denominations like Catholicism, Lutheranism, Episcopalianism, etc… So it’s entirely possible and likely that individual churches run the gamut of attitudes toward Jews and Israel. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/118 "2021-10-16T07:47:57Z")
In before Sam explains that the original Nazis were leftists 'cause, I mean c’mon guys, it says socialist right there in their name. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/119 "2021-10-16T14:13:02Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > In fact, almost all the anti-semitism I have personally run into came from the progressive left, as a byproduct of their support for Palestinians and dislike of **Jews for their more capitalist nature.** While the whole post was a spectacular example of trying to hijack a thread and make it about oneself, this sentence really stands out for the way that it tries to tie “the Left” with both desiring and enabling the Holocaust AND with hating capitalism. What is really interesting to me, tho, is the part that I bolded. Are we just supposed to accept this, **Sam**? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709/120 "2021-10-16T14:24:35Z")
The part I always found hard to accept was that Jews were determined to grind down the world under the bootheel of unrestrained capitalism while simultaneously committed to communist revolution.\* It’s a construct not of the Left, but of fringe wackos without any coherent political philosophy. \*akin to believing that vaccines are central to a world depopulation scheme which somehow inflates the profits of Giant Corporations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-principal-says-he-cant-say-the-holocaust-was-real/836709.md?page=7)