# Florida recount **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389 "2018-11-12T03:11:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/1 "2018-11-12T03:11:28Z")
[According to CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/11/politics/florida-recount-palm-beach-county/index.html), Palm Beach County officials are now saying there’s no way they can finish the recount by Thursday’s deadline, which will, according to Palm Beach county GOP chair Michael Barnett, put the GOP in very good position because their candidates are ahead. Not completing the recount means the Florida secretary of state would determine whether to certify the results as they are,. The Florida Sec. of State, Ken Detzner, is GOP. It’s deja vu all over again. Why would a state have a recount deadline that can’t be met? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/2 "2018-11-12T03:48:56Z")
There’ll be a law suit. You can time that one with a stop watch. Might even end up back and the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/3 "2018-11-12T03:55:54Z")
Jesus H. Christ, this 2018 why can’t they have a system that works? There’s seriously something wrong in Florida politics. This is really over the line. The Fed needs to send people down there to monitor elections. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/4 "2018-11-12T03:59:13Z")
The key now is whether or not they’re forced to stop recounting, even if it’s after the deadline and won’t be accepted without some future ruling otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/5 "2018-11-12T04:11:58Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Jesus H. Christ, this 2018 why can’t they have a system that works? There’s seriously something wrong in Florida politics. This is really over the line. The Fed needs to send people down there to monitor elections. There are such piddly problems everywhere, but there are not many counties in the US as crucial in a swing state as the contiguous counties of Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach, which have a larger (very Dem heavy) population than the rest of the state combined. Problem is, the state capitol is up north and has been historically dominated by Republicans. Let’s just say the instinct to disenfranchise the “center of resistance” that is South Florida was on full display with the predictable venomous reactions from Scott and Desantis. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/6 "2018-11-12T04:30:30Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Jesus H. Christ, this 2018 why can’t they have a system that works? Because there are people who benefit from disenfranchising a subset of voters? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/7 "2018-11-12T04:52:02Z")
This is a machine recount? They did this in a matter of hours on election night. Why does it matter that they are counting three races instead of one? I thought after the 2000 debacle, Florida went to electronic voting. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/8 "2018-11-12T04:52:30Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Because there are people who benefit from disenfranchising a subset of voters? Agreed. Because there are people (the GOP) who benefit from disenfranchising a subset of voters (minorities and those who will vote for Democrats). Of course, as the usual contingent of (supposed) lawyers will tell us, this is perfectly okay because it is legal. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Jesus H. Christ, this 2018 why can’t they have a system that works? Mostly for no other reason than because it is Florida. Any other state that has gone through the bullshit Florida has with counting votes over the last 18 years would have taken action. Florida is a synonym for dysfunction. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/9 "2018-11-12T05:07:15Z")
They have taken action, they have gone electronic or Scantron, there are no chads. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/10 "2018-11-12T05:09:36Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This is a machine recount? They did this in a matter of hours on election night. Why does it matter that they are counting three races instead of one? > > I thought after the 2000 debacle, Florida went to electronic voting. No, they have paper ballots - fill in the oval type. Scantron, I think it’s called. As for why it’s taking so long, that CNN article linked to above says that volunteers in Pam Beach County are using eight machines. Another [CNN article here](https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/results/florida) shows the by county vote count in Florida for Senate in Palm Beach county - a combined total of 588,562 votes. So over four days, each machine will have to count almost 18,400 votes, or 766/hour. Someone can check my math here, please. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/11 "2018-11-12T05:24:29Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Jesus H. Christ, this 2018 why can’t they have a system that works? There’s seriously something wrong in Florida politics. This is really over the line. The Fed needs to send people down there to monitor elections. The people who remain in control, benefit from a broken system, so it is working as intended. If it started to benefit Democrats, they’d want to change it. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/12 "2018-11-12T05:34:59Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > No, they have paper ballots - fill in the oval type. Scantron, I think it’s called. > > As for why it’s taking so long, that CNN article linked to above says that volunteers in Pam Beach County are using eight machines. Another [CNN article here](https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/results/florida) shows the by county vote count in Florida for Senate in Palm Beach county - a combined total of 588,562 votes. So over four days, each machine will have to count almost 18,400 votes, or 766/hour. > > Someone can check my math here, please. My point was that they were able to run all of these ballots through the machine on election night in a matter of hours. Why can they not just do the same process again in the next four days? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/13 "2018-11-12T05:38:08Z")
Surprise, it takes longer for the most populated counties to gather and count (and even longer to recount) all their votes than it does for the low population counties to do so. For obvious reasons, there will be more problems and any problems will involve larger numbers and will be even more amplified during any close, important elections. That the most populous counties are Democratic leaning just makes it both natural and convenient for the desperate attempts to disenfranchise them to the greatest extent they can get away with. Again, Florida state politics is and has been absolutely dominated by Republicans, yet there are many more Democrats living in Florida than there are Republicans, which would have no chance at all if all the Democrats actually voted and had those votes counted. Florida has a lot of electoral votes and they’re up for grabs. That’s all the plot you really need to know to guess the whole story. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/14 "2018-11-12T05:40:03Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > My point was that they were able to run all of these ballots through the machine on election night in a matter of hours. Why can they not just do the same process again in the next four days? Because for both undervotes and overvotes, they have to check each ballot _by hand_ to determine the problem that caused the aberration. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/15 "2018-11-12T05:49:29Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Because for both undervotes and overvotes, they have to check each ballot _by hand_ to determine the problem that caused the aberration. Not sure about that - I think that belongs with the manual recount that would be triggered if the machine recount is within X%\* In the video linked to in the first post, the anchor asks the same question **UltraVires** does. The reply is that each election must be segregated from the others, a much more “laborious process”. Go to about 1:40 for the reporter’s explanation. (So I don’t have to retype it… :D) Basically, it boils down to having to do three independent recounts - one each for Senate, Governor, and Agriculture Commissioner. \*.2%? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/16 "2018-11-12T05:53:45Z")
That’s both true and different than what I’m talking about. Close elections have automatic recounts, but particular ballots with particular aberrations (undervotes, overvotes, signature mismatch, etc.) have to be inspected manually. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/17 "2018-11-12T06:13:19Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > That’s both true and different than what I’m talking about. Close elections have automatic recounts, but particular ballots with particular aberrations (undervotes, overvotes, signature mismatch, etc.) have to be inspected manually. Indeed they do, but only in a manual recount. > [@](#): > > Optical scan ballots and hybrid voting system paper outputs: The canvassing board must run each ballot with the affected race(s) through tabulator. All overvotes (optical scan ballots only) and undervotes (optical scan/hybrid voting system paper outputs) are outstacked to be used in the manual recount if one becomes necessary > [@](#): > > MANUAL RECOUNT (S. 102.166, F.S.)  A manual recount must be ordered if the 2nd set of unofficial returns indicates that a candidate was eliminated or defeated by ¼ of 1% or less of the votes cast for the office or an issue was approved or rejected by ¼ of 1% or less.  Exceptions to a manual recount: o If the candidate or candidates defeated or eliminated from contention for the office by ¼ of 1% or less request in writing that it not be conducted; or o If the number of overvotes and undervotes is fewer than the number of votes needed to change the outcome of the election.  The manual recount is only a recount of overvotes and undervotes as outstacked from the machine recount. [From the State of Florida recount procedure summary (pdf)](https://soe.dos.state.fl.us/pdf/DE_Guide_0010-Recount_Procedure_Summary.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/18 "2018-11-12T08:07:51Z")
How hard would it be, exactly, to roll in another 10 or 12 machines from another county? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/19 "2018-11-12T11:29:05Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > How hard would it be, exactly, to roll in another 10 or 12 machines from another county? Whoa, whoa, whoa, we wouldn’t want to do something sensible that might effect Republicans winning. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389/20 "2018-11-12T12:07:58Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > [According to CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/11/politics/florida-recount-palm-beach-county/index.html), Palm Beach County officials are now saying there’s no way they can finish the recount by Thursday’s deadline, which will, according to Palm Beach county GOP chair Michael Barnett, put the GOP in very good position because their candidates are ahead. Not completing the recount means the Florida secretary of state would determine whether to certify the results as they are,. The Florida Sec. of State, Ken Detzner, is GOP. > > It’s deja vu all over again. > > Why would a state have a recount deadline that can’t be met? First, all the other counties can meet the deadline. And most years, Palm Beach handles vote counting just fine. For some reason they had some foulups this year, as did Broward. Second, recounts are BS. Running ballots through the machine once gives one result, running them through a second time gives a different result. There is no evidence that result #2 is more accurate than result #1. It’s all kabuki to make voters think that their one vote can make a difference, when the reality is that elections have a margin of error. Invalid ballots get included in totals, valid ballots get lost, mistakes occur during counting. When an election is close enough, there is literally no way to determine the intent of the voters. It’s a tie, and recounts are just a sophisticated way to do a coin flip. That being said, Rick Scott is ahead by 12,000 votes, and no recount has ever flipped that many votes, or even come close. It’s over. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-recount/824389.md?page=2)