# Florida Republicans Admit Voter Suppression Was The Goal Of New Election Laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 27, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305 "2012-11-27T20:41:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/21 "2012-11-29T07:03:38Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > I really would like to see people prosecuted for treason for pursing this line of electoral strategy. The right to vote is as sacred to Americans as anything and someone using their official powers to obstruct the exercise of that right should suffer severe consequences. National exile would be my preference. (N. Korea would probably welcome their emigration) I’m not sure that punishing legislators for proposing laws is the best way to shore up democracy. Would the judges then be prosecuted for using their official powers to obstruct the exercise of a sacred right? We’re going to need more branches of government for this to work. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/22 "2012-11-29T07:51:34Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I’m not sure that punishing legislators for proposing laws is the best way to shore up democracy. > > Would the judges then be prosecuted for using their official powers to obstruct the exercise of a sacred right? We’re going to need more branches of government for this to work. We don’t need another branch, you just need a law that clarifies the crime and lays out the consequence. Conspiracy to obstruct the voting rights of citizens of the united states by elected or appointed officials is clearly criminal to me. They’re not even hiding that this is what they did. These are serious matters that taken to the extreme would lead to a tyranny. To prevent people from doing this in a covert manner we should have a uniform method of voting administration that is convenient for any citizen. As well as national holidays on any election day. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/23 "2012-11-29T08:16:11Z")
I don’t need them to go to jail, I just need them to go away. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/24 "2012-11-29T08:30:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I don’t need them to go to jail, I just need them to go away. Thus exile being the perfect solution. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/25 "2012-11-29T09:02:43Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > These are serious matters that taken to the extreme would lead to a tyranny. So is the criminalization of politics. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/26 "2012-11-29T09:49:16Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > So is the criminalization of politics. this is in no way criminalizing politics, these laws and technical actions were not about a difference of opinion on issues, these were put in place to sabotage our democracy. These were not accidents, they were willful. If I as an individual stood outside a polling location and tried to prevent voting I’d be arrested. These guys did that on a mass scale through the power of office. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/27 "2012-11-29T17:18:27Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > So is the criminalization of politics. The GOP has already made it criminal, criminal to exercise your vote, criminal to be in an opposition party, criminal to be born poor or minority. Its karma. Maybe they should rethink having to steal votes in the future if they don’t want to be thrown in jail ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/28 "2012-11-29T17:31:26Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > So is the criminalization of politics. That’s not really an answer to this issue. I’m sure there are some that thought the Civil Rights Act of 1965 was the criminalization of politics. If there are widespread efforts by some states to limit voters’ rights in favour of one party, Congress could address it, just as they addressed efforts by some states to limit voters’ rights in favour of one race. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/29 "2012-11-29T21:31:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I really would like to see people prosecuted for treason for pursing this line of electoral strategy. Treason shall consist only in making war against the United States, or in aiding and comforting the enemy. But if you want to create a new crime called, say, “unlawful vote suppression”, I’d have no problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/30 "2012-11-29T21:55:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Treason shall consist only in making war against the United States, or in aiding and comforting the enemy. > > But if you want to create a new crime called, say, “unlawful vote suppression”, I’d have no problem with that. Ya I wasn’t trying to say that under current law that people could be arrested for this under any provision (though Im no lawyer so who knows whats in the code in various places). Certainly though I’d like to add it. Along with people shorting the US stock market and trying to destabilize it to cash in the crash. There are certain crimes that are crimes against the nation and all it’s people. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/31 "2012-11-30T17:32:47Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > They might have said during the campaign that the Voter ID law will help Romney win, but they can pretend they’re talking about voter fraud and voter confidence instead of voter disenfranchisement. Why are you so sure that Republicans don’t believe - even if mistakenly - that voter fraud is widespread enough to make a difference? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/32 "2012-11-30T17:55:22Z")
I am quite sure many of them do. They believe that they are solidly in the majority of Americans, hence, the only way they lose elections is by massive fraud. Its de river called De Nial. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/33 "2012-11-30T17:56:41Z")
That’s undoubtedly true. But that’s not what is being alleged here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/34 "2012-11-30T17:58:46Z")
I see. So, those who are genuinely stupid should be judged less harshly than those who are cynically exploiting that stupidity? Important point, can we move on now? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/35 "2012-11-30T18:00:59Z")
It’s not stupid. It’s human nature. You and yours are equally “stupid” in much the same manner, and you don’t see it because you’re also in “de river called De Nial”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/36 "2012-11-30T18:12:04Z")
True enough, we are blinded by our child-like faith in “facts” and “evidence”. Have you any of that, by any chance? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/37 "2012-11-30T18:19:00Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Why are you so sure that Republicans don’t believe - even if mistakenly - that voter fraud is widespread enough to make a difference? I’m unaware of any Republican led effort to understand how widespread voter fraud is. In PA, where that comment was made, the defenders of the law stated in court that they did not know of a single instance of voter impersonation in the history of PA voting. Yet, you would suggest I believe that the PA House Majority leader thinks, with no evidence to back him up, that there are enough voter impersonations to significantly affect the election, and those VIs would predominantly be Obama voters. I suppose I could believe him, but I don’t. At a minimum, if you’re going to make exercising rights more difficult, you damn well better have and honest reason to do so, not some hokey belief in a completely fabricated issue. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/38 "2012-11-30T18:28:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > True enough, we are blinded by our child-like faith in “facts” and “evidence”. That’s what they all say … > [@](#): > > Have you any of that, by any chance? Evidence of what? Evidence that Democrats similarly “believe that they are solidly in the majority of Americans, hence, the only way they lose elections is by massive fraud”? Look around. Like, on this message board, for example. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’m unaware of any Republican led effort to understand how widespread voter fraud is. How would they go about doing this? > [@](#): > > In PA, where that comment was made, the defenders of the law stated in court that they did not know of a single instance of voter impersonation in the history of PA voting. If no one looks, no one finds anything. I myself know of one instance of voter fraud because a close relative of mine told me he personally voted fraudulently. He didn’t even entertain the possibility that he would be investigated and prosecuted and neither did I. **FTR, I myself don’t think voter fraud is a factor in US elections**. But I do think a lot of people think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/39 "2012-11-30T18:52:55Z")
Speaking of which, here’s a curious question: In the states which have enacted provisional ballots, what percentage of these ballots turn out to be invalid? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/40 "2012-11-30T19:14:38Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > How would they go about doing this? It took me about 5 minutes to come up with the “voter experience poll” idea. You call registered voters asking about their most recent experience voting at their location. Q1) You are listed as having voted in this past election, would you mind answering questions about your voting experience? Q2) did you actually vote? If a voter who is listed as voting says “I didn’t vote” someone may have impersonated them. > [@](#): > > If no one looks, no one finds anything. The question is why does nobody look? Why don’t people who claim to think this is important refuse to even TRY to look? > [@](#): > > I myself know of one instance of voter fraud because a close relative of mine told me he personally voted fraudulently. He didn’t even entertain the possibility that he would be investigated and prosecuted and neither did I. Out of idle curiosity, did your relative impersonate someone, vote while not registered (but would legally be allowed to vote if he bothered registering) or simply vote from the incorrect location? I also think a lot of people think it’s a problem, but I don’t think that applies to political leaders who are spearheading the legislation, they know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305.md?page=3)