# Florida Republicans Admit Voter Suppression Was The Goal Of New Election Laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 27, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305 "2012-11-27T20:41:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/61 "2012-12-03T18:31:16Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > …Meaning the issues that tend to come up are where the normal hours are not sufficient and Democrats request special extended hours. Not knowning much detail, my inclination would be to assume that Democratic areas have more troubles because they tend to be in lower income districts, and because of the success of Democratic voter registration and turnout efforts… So, really, the problem is that there are too many Dem voters. In a nutshell. The solution many of us would prefer is to accommodate those voters. In fact, many of us, myself included, regard that accommodation as a solemn duty of the state. That whole “equality” thing, you understand. Nonetheless, I commend your keen grasp of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/62 "2012-12-03T18:44:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, really, the problem is that there are too many Dem voters. In a nutshell. Well, not exactly. Polling places are set up to accomodate a certain level of voting, and if you manage to increase that level in a certain election, then you might catch them unprepared. In addition, GOTV can get pretty intense as it gets nearer to closing time. I remember when I was in school and the local polical machine would send vans out about a half hour, hour before the polls closed and transport as many as they could to the polls. But that said, I’m just speculating anyway. I don’t know. > [@](#): > > Nonetheless, I commend your keen grasp of the problem. And I would say the same of you, were it true. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/63 "2012-12-03T18:55:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > And I would say the same of you, were it true. Didn’t stop **luci** … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/64 "2012-12-03T21:02:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Well, not exactly. Polling places are set up to accomodate a certain level of voting, and if you manage to increase that level in a certain election, then you might catch them unprepared… If only they had some way of knowing, some hint of such a development! Darn shame about that. Must not have seen all those news stories about people standing in line for hours to vote in years past. No doubt Republicans looked upon that with shock and dismay, that so many Dem voters were not getting their votes heard. Probably meant to deal with that issue just as soon as the burning question of voter fraud is resolved. And the ungrateful Democrats demand “special” treatment to solve a problem they themselves created! The nerve of some people! The problem being not enough voting places and machines, and/or not enough time to vote. I have a radical suggestion! Crazy shit, I know, but how about we expand both the number of voting opportunities and expand the hours? I realize that such a program is likely to enhance the politicial opportunity available to the more or less lefty side of the ticket, but I am willing to face that grim prospect if stern duty demands. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/65 "2012-12-03T21:10:41Z")
No doubt you intend to focus on substance after you’ve set the record for most consecutive sarcastic posts on the SDMB. Probably just waiting till you have it nailed down for sure - the Guiness Book people are sure to call any day now. Might require a bit more attention to unpleasant things like nitty gritty details and logic and so on. But I’m sure you’re similarly willing to face that grim prospect when stern duty demands. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/66 "2012-12-03T22:09:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s not how most laws are passed, in my experience. Some are based on studies, but most are primarily based on anecdotal evidence and testimony from a bunch of people about their personal experience plus testimony from some so-called experts. My issue here is that there are no so-called experts to say anything of substance about voter fraud. From the start, it was a trumped up issue. The purpose of trumping up the issue was to make it harder for disadvantaged citizens to vote. The theory is that one less vote for the other guy is just as good as one more vote for me. It’s like promoting defense in a sport, which is totally cool, until you have a golfer stepping on his rival’s ball, or kicking it under a bush. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Well, not exactly. Polling places are set up to accomodate a certain level of voting, and if you manage to increase that level in a certain election, then you might catch them unprepared. Setup by who, and for what purpose? Seems to me, it’s setup by the state government for the purpose of allowing citizens to exercise their right to vote. The government has a responsibility towards its citizens, not just the ones that party leadership wants to get more votes from. Setting polling places that wind up with multi hour waits is just cheating your own citizens, and depriving them of their rights. Deliberately making the process harder is even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/67 "2012-12-03T22:21:33Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > My issue here is that there are no so-called experts to say anything of substance about voter fraud. From the start, it was a trumped up issue. The purpose of trumping up the issue was to make it harder for disadvantaged citizens to vote. Sez you. Myself I think it was more likely “hey we hear a lot of stories about fraudulent voting and there’s probably something to it, and what’s the big deal about requiring some ID for voting anyway, like we require ID for so many other things, and like so many other countries routinely require ID for voting, and if the Democrats keep squawking so much about it, well maybe that just shows that they know their political machines are producing all sorts of fraudulent voters out there that they want to keep voting for them …” > [@](#): > > Setup by who, and for what purpose? Seems to me, it’s setup by the state government for the purpose of allowing citizens to exercise their right to vote. The government has a responsibility towards its citizens, not just the ones that party leadership wants to get more votes from. Setting polling places that wind up with multi hour waits is just cheating your own citizens, and depriving them of their rights. Deliberately making the process harder is even worse. I believe these things are set by local boards. I highly doubt if anyone is setting out to cheat anyone. But if based on past history they’re expecting X number of voters, and so have enough machines and manpower for X numbers of voters, and then suddenly 2X actually show up, they might be caught off guard and short-handed. Especially if - as observed earlier - turnout gets a whole lot heavier just around closing time. Then even if you have enough machines and manpower for the job, you’re going to get overwhelmed. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/68 "2012-12-03T22:34:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Sez you. Myself I think it was more likely “hey we hear a lot of stories about fraudulent voting and there’s probably something to it, and what’s the big deal about requiring some ID for voting anyway, like we require ID for so many other things, and like so many other countries routinely require ID for voting, and if the Democrats keep squawking so much about it, well maybe that just shows that they know their political machines are producing all sorts of fraudulent voters out there that they want to keep voting for them …” If only there were some way to look at how requiring ID might effect different groups. Perhaps involving numbers or something. ---
**Author:** ![GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/69 "2012-12-03T22:50:41Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I believe these things are set by local boards. I highly doubt if anyone is setting out to cheat anyone. > > But if based on past history they’re expecting X number of voters, and so have enough machines and manpower for X numbers of voters, and then suddenly 2X actually show up, they might be caught off guard and short-handed. Especially if - as observed earlier - turnout gets a whole lot heavier just around closing time. Then even if you have enough machines and manpower for the job, you’re going to get overwhelmed. I believe, I doubt, but if, they might… ugh. Maybe you should find out for sure. Please quit trying to drown everyone in verbiage and bring some cited facts to your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/70 "2012-12-03T22:58:12Z")
Hey, if I chose the route that many other chose and just pretended I was sure of everything would you would be happier? Or do certain assertions go unchallenged? This thread has been largely fact free from all sides, and yet you’ve managed to withhold your outrage to this point. Hard to explain, but yet, there it is … Feel free to skip my posts. I don’t intend to change. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/71 "2012-12-04T00:33:50Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > You are ridiculous. > […] > (But whatever, you’ve already displayed clearly you’re over in la-di-da nonsense land so I don’t expect to convince you of anything.) **Untoward\_Parable** , you’ve received a bunch of warnings recently for insulting other posters. If you can’t follow the rules, your posting privileges may be suspended or eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/72 "2012-12-04T03:41:36Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Sez you. Myself I think it was more likely “hey we hear a lot of stories about fraudulent voting and there’s probably something to it, and what’s the big deal about requiring some ID for voting anyway, like we require ID for so many other things, and like so many other countries routinely require ID for voting, and if the Democrats keep squawking so much about it, well maybe that just shows that they know their political machines are producing all sorts of fraudulent voters out there that they want to keep voting for them …”… Possible? Yes, of course, even nearly certain. No doubt about it, some Republicans believe that the Democrats are winning elections due to massive voter fraud. Only possible explanation, isn’t it? Everybody knows America is a conservative, center-right country, everybody knows most Americans agree with the Republicans. But don’t vote that way. And that belief would justify harsh actions. If it were true. I may believe that Republicans are Satan’s spawn, and must be forbidden entry into any church for fear that the baptismal font would burst into flame at their presence. Now, if I could show you any such incident had actually occurred, perhaps I might have a point. But I can’t, so i don’t. The erroneous beliefs of Republicans may offer us some reason to sympathize, some compassion for the deluded and deranged. I feel sorry for the guy who walks around talking out loud with no cell phone, but that doesn’t mean I solicit his advice. That doesn’t mean he is empowered to make things fit his world-view. You don’t believe that nonsense, do you? (This post is board-certified to be relatively free or snarkasm, registering below the 50 millihicks threshold for “snark free”. By comparison, Mr. Rodgers averaged roughly 62 milllihicks on any given day…) ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305/73 "2012-12-04T05:56:47Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Might require a bit more attention to unpleasant things like nitty gritty details and logic and so on. Unpleasant, nitty-gritty details like… _spend more money_? Spend more money to insure that all precincts have adequate resources to insure everyone has a decent opportunity to vote? Hmmmph… just what we need! More specious spending on government programs to help the special-interests! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-republicans-admit-voter-suppression-was-the-goal-of-new-election-laws/642305.md?page=3)