# Florida School Contemplates Teaching ID **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354 "2007-11-21T19:23:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/1 "2007-11-21T19:23:16Z")
[Anybody up for a game of Whack-A-Mole?](http://www.theledger.com/article/20071120/NEWS/711200414/1004) > [@](#): > > A majority of Polk County School Board members say they support teaching intelligent design in addition to evolution in public schools. > > Board members Tim Harris, Margaret Lofton and Hazel Sellers said they oppose proposed science standards for Florida schools that lists evolution and biological diversity as one of the “big ideas” that students need to know for a well-grounded science education. > > Board member Kay Fields said last week she wants intelligent design, which is promoted by some Christian groups, taught in science classes in addition to evolution. I’d ask how anyone can be so stupid and still be breathing, but I know there’s ample people out there who are just as dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/2 "2007-11-21T19:30:03Z")
I thought this would be about requiring some sort of card in the wake of security and/or scandals. Would make more sense than altering the science curriculum at least. ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/3 "2007-11-21T19:40:05Z")
yessiree! That’s my state! (Not surprising. Look at the past year of News of the Weird…More stories originate in FL than anywhere else) ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/4 "2007-11-21T19:46:43Z")
When will global warming flood Florida off the map? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/5 "2007-11-21T19:53:30Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] When will global warming flood Florida off the map? [/QUOTE] Probably never, because I’d be willing to bet that those idiots don’t believe in that, either. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/6 "2007-11-21T21:58:01Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Probably never, because I’d be willing to bet that those idiots don’t believe in that, either. 😉 [/QUOTE] Exactly. The great Flood has already occured–need proof? Look at a rainbow! 😉 Next time it’s through fire. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/7 "2007-11-21T23:30:42Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] [Anybody up for a game of Whack-A-Mole?](http://www.theledger.com/article/20071120/NEWS/711200414/1004)I’d ask how anyone can be so stupid and still be breathing, but I know there’s ample people out there who are just as dumb. [/QUOTE] This is why states’ right are an important concept. Why do you in TN, give two shits about what Polk County, FL teaches in the classroom? Do you have kids that go to school there? Do family members live there? If not, the piss off and let those people make their own bed to lie in. Ten years from now when no Polk County school children are world renoun Biology experts, leave it to the members of the school board to defend their judgements.. This is how, in this country, we experiment with ideas and let the bad ones be proven wrong. You want to stop ID teachings everywhere? Then let Christians claim forever that the reason why all bad things happen is because you stopped ID from being taught. The states are laboratories for thought.. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/8 "2007-11-21T23:37:55Z")
Maybe it’s time to establish something like a federal Department of Education. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/9 "2007-11-21T23:41:34Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Maybe it’s time to establish something like a federal Department of Education. [/QUOTE] Maybe it’s 12 years ago that we should have eliminated it.. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/10 "2007-11-22T00:12:02Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] This is why states’ right are an important concept. [/quote] Luckily for us, there’s that pesky Constitution thingy. > [@](#): > > Why do you in TN, give two shits about what Polk County, FL teaches in the classroom? Do you have kids that go to school there? Do family members live there? Off the top of my head: Education standards, a well educated work force… > [@](#): > > If not, the piss off and let those people make their own bed to lie in. Yeah screw the kids who don’t know any better. > [@](#): > > Ten years from now when no Polk County school children are world renoun Biology experts, leave it to the members of the school board to defend their judgements.. Or they could learn by [example](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District) ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/11 "2007-11-22T01:09:39Z")
In fairness, Polk County, FL is the Lightning Capital of the World. These people are naturally curious about whether God influences his creation; and if so, why He’s aiming at them. (A helpful Florida traveller’s tip: when visiting Polk County, _never leave the interstate for any reason._ Step out of your car for an instant, and the next thing you know you’ve been struck by lightning multiple times, your smoldering carcass stripped of valuables by the locals, efficiently molested, and quickly buried in a nearby phosphate pit. This happens literally thousands of times a day.) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/12 "2007-11-22T01:50:47Z")
[QUOTE=Stuffy] Luckily for us, there’s that pesky Constitution thingy. [/QUOTE] Yes, the one with the tenth amendment. [QUOTE=Stuffy] Off the top of my head: Education standards, a well educated work force… [/quote] I’m sure you can’t sleep nights worrying about the education standards of the work force in Polk County, FL. If you do, you need to get a life.. [QUOTE=Stuffy] Yeah screw the kids who don’t know any better. [/quote] Since parents and local boards are to fucked up, then we need national standards and camps teaching children how to be good athiests and liberals. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/13 "2007-11-22T02:03:01Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] I’m sure you can’t sleep nights worrying about the education standards of the work force in Polk County, FL. If you do, you need to get a life.. [/quote] When an ant makes its way onto my picnic blanket, I flick it off. If I leave it alone, my picnic will eventually be overrun by ants. > [@](#): > > Since parents and local boards are to fucked up, then we need national standards and camps teaching children how to be good athiests and liberals. Where did you get all of that straw? LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/14 "2007-11-22T02:14:27Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Yes, the one with the tenth amendment. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure the tenth amendment really applies here, as I think states rights is a bit of a Red Herring in this discussion. The 10th states “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, **nor prohibited by it to the States** , are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” The question of teaching ID is : Does it violate the first amendment by implicitly establishing a state sponsored religious viewpoint? If so, then it is obviously prohibited to the states. The states may be laboratories for thought, but that doesn’t mean we can have fifty different interpretations of the first amendment, or fifty different interpretations of the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/15 "2007-11-22T02:15:40Z")
It is the county next to me. Am I allowed to be upset? I mean, I work with several people who have crossed that impenetrable barrier of the Polk County Line to work. Thankfully, I am not in a field that requires much brain-cell rubbing, so perhaps they are safe. But seriously, wtf? It has been pretty darn well proven that ID exists just as a way to get creationism (the biblical one) into schools. Do people _really_ believe it? I mean, come on, it has actually fooled someone into thinking it has any validity whatsoever? PT Barnum was right. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/16 "2007-11-22T02:28:13Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] I’m not sure the tenth amendment really applies here, as I think states rights is a bit of a Red Herring in this discussion. The 10th states “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, **nor prohibited by it to the States** , are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” The question of teaching ID is : Does it violate the first amendment by implicitly establishing a state sponsored religious viewpoint? If so, then it is obviously prohibited to the states. The states may be laboratories for thought, but that doesn’t mean we can have fifty different interpretations of the first amendment, or fifty different interpretations of the constitution. [/QUOTE] Your constitutional logic is spinning in circles. The authors of the first amendment never intended it to apply to the states. Next step down: a state sponsored religious viewpoint does not amount to an establishment of religion, nor prohibits the free exercise thereof. As in, even if the U.S. or any State said that “Christianity is the PREFERRED religion, and in our humble opinion, all others can fuck off, but will face no prosecution” it STILL does not violate the first. If you think it does, provide me with constitutional evidence, not Warren court bullshit.. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/17 "2007-11-22T02:31:32Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Your constitutional logic is spinning in circles. The authors of the first amendment never intended it to apply to the states. Next step down: a state sponsored religious viewpoint does not amount to an establishment of religion, nor prohibits the free exercise thereof. As in, even if the U.S. or any State said that “Christianity is the PREFERRED religion, and in our humble opinion, all others can fuck off, but will face no prosecution” it STILL does not violate the first. If you think it does, provide me with constitutional evidence, not Warren court bullshit.. [/QUOTE] Anything from the Warren court isn’t constitutional evidence? Seems to me it would be a waste of time to bring _any_ evidence forward, if you are going to only accept evidence that supports your argument. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/18 "2007-11-22T02:37:26Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Anything from the Warren court isn’t constitutional evidence? Seems to me it would be a waste of time to bring _any_ evidence forward, if you are going to only accept evidence that supports your argument. [/QUOTE] The Warren Court made so many rulings that relied on their own personal opinions not rooted in precedent or law, that only Brown v Board leaves them with any validity because it ended segregation. Since 50 years later, we are glad that the races attend the same schools doesn’t mean that the Warren Court relied on any correct precedent or did anything but succumb to Earl Warren’s large ego. Then they rewrote the whole constitution. Whether you agree with what happened or not, surely, and surely you must agree that it was an activist court against what the framers envisioned.. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/19 "2007-11-22T02:41:37Z")
I have found that, when people refer to an “activist court”, they mean a court that did not interpret the constitution to their liking. It has no meaning other than “they didn’t do what I wanted them to do.” ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354/20 "2007-11-22T02:46:24Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Next step down: a state sponsored religious viewpoint does not amount to an establishment of religion, nor prohibits the free exercise thereof. As in, even if the U.S. or any State said that “Christianity is the PREFERRED religion, and in our humble opinion, all others can fuck off, but will face no prosecution” it STILL does not violate the first. [/QUOTE] I was under the impression that the Establishment Clause also prevented the country/states from establishing a state _preferred_ religion. Is that not the case? In any case, if the U.S. or any state did establish a preferred religion, that most certainly _does_ infringe on my freedom of religion. It’s a simple case of intimidation. It’s like finding yourself in the middle of a “Captain Kirk” convention, with a nametag that says “Picard rules!” Who knows what could happen to you if you decide to actually wear your nametag. LilShieste [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-school-contemplates-teaching-id/427354.md?page=2)