# "Florida Schools Will Teach How Slavery Brought ‘Personal Benefit’ to Black People" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304 "2023-07-20T14:46:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/181 "2023-07-24T14:14:45Z")
Who did their research- Q anon? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/182 "2023-07-26T03:54:57Z")
This is a different thing but the same kind of thinking as what is in the OP: Full Title: **Auschwitz museum and White House criticise Fox News’ Greg Gutfeld for saying ‘useful’ Jews survived Nazi camps** > **[White House slams Fox News’ Greg Gutfeld for saying ‘useful’ Jews survived...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/greg-gutfeld-fox-news-auschwitz-b2381769.html)** > > Museum on site of former concentration camp said host wasn’t being historically accurate ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/183 "2023-07-26T04:36:05Z")
Good fucking God. I had even thought of the comparison of slavery being a benefit to slaves to ‘useful’ Jews of the Jewish Ghetto Police in the Jewish ghettos and the Jewish _Sonderkommandos_ in the extermination camps learning that they could be killed last by being useful to the Nazis but considered it to be in too poor of taste and do a disgusting disservice to those who were faced with the awful choice of being a member of them. Before roundly condemning them as a whole for what they did - what they were forced to do - bear in mind _Sonderkommandos_ led the Birkenau rebellion in 1944 which destroyed 2 of the 4 crematoria. Greg Gutfeld can get fucked with a rusty razor, if the lesson he learned from reading _Man’s Search for Meaning_ was "“Vik Frankl talks about how you had to survive in a concentration camp by having skills. You had to be useful. Utility. Utility kept you alive” he is a truly disgusting piece of shit and missed the entire point of the book. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/184 "2023-07-26T05:12:53Z")
Here’s what Greg Gutfeld is speaking in defense of: > After deportation trains arrived at an extermination centre, Nazi guards would order the prisoners out of the packed trains and into a line to undergo the selection process. Prisoners would typically have come from Poland (around 3 of the 6 million jews killed were Polish), Russia (1.3 million killed) and Hungary (more than 500,000 killed). > > During this process, men were placed separately from women and children, and an appointed officer of the Nazi party, typically an SS physician, would examine each of the deportees to determine whether they were in good physical health to be put to work – noting that they had usually passed several weeks or months by this point with very little food and had endured a packed train journey of several days without food or water. > > The appointed officer / physician would then either point for the prisoner to go left or right of the room, with no further explanation. One side was for those deemed healthy to undergo forced labour, the other was for those to be sent to the gas chamber. > > Those typically over the age of 14-16, who were deemed fit and able to work were sent for registration in the camp. Here the prisoners would be stripped of all their clothes and valuables, be completely shaved of all their hair, disinfected and showered before being tattooed with a registration number. After all this had taken place, the prisoners were then handed the infamous striped uniform, hat and clogs and forced to strenuous work. > > Those who were less likely to be deemed as fit to work by the death camp’s acting physicians were as follows: > > - All children under the age of 16, later brought down to 14 years old in 1944. > - Pregnant women. > - The handicapped, both physically and mentally. > - The elderly. > - The sick. > > Prisoners who were brought over to the camps and fell under any of these categories were typically sentenced to death by the gas chamber. On average, it is thought that around 20% of prisoners brought to the extermination camps were selected for forced labour, with the remaining victims killed in the gas chambers. > > [cite](https://www.holocaustmatters.org/holocaust-selection-process/) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/185 "2023-07-26T05:15:44Z")
What’s your point? That it happened? I don’t think anyone is denying that. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/186 "2023-07-26T05:23:42Z")
I all this also matches the Randian Objectivist philosophy that is popular among the right. There are the good people who are useful and make money (ones value is directly proportional to ones income because the free market is never wrong) and then there are those who are not productive and leach off of the good productive people, and might as well left to starve if not enslaved or killed since they are valueless. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/187 "2023-07-26T05:55:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What’s your point? > > That it happened? I don’t think anyone is denying that. My point is that conservatives are not condemning slavery. They’re proposing a program to present slavery in a more favorable light. And a Fox News commentator is noting the similarities between slavery and the Holocaust as part of this effort. Which means Fox News sees this comparison as a point in the program’s favor. When most people compare something to what the Nazis did, they’re using it to attack the thing they’re talking about. Fox News is comparing something to what the Nazis did in order to show their support for it. Fox News is giving Florida’s new educational program the Nazi seal of approval. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/188 "2023-07-26T06:05:49Z")
Ah…I see. My misunderstanding. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/189 "2023-07-26T06:19:22Z")
Oh yeah, and to anyone unfamiliar with Viktor Frankl’s _Man’s Search for Meaning_ and why Greg Gutless’ lesson learned from reading it is so offensive (and nice of him to use the familiar ‘Vik’), Viktor Frankl was an Austrian psychologist who wrote [_Man’s Search for Meaning_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning) in 1946 after having survived in various Nazi concentration camps. The moral of the book isn’t “be useful to the Nazis by having a skill to survive,” and anyone who draws that as its thesis and moral scarcely qualifies as a human being. > Frankl identifies three psychological reactions experienced by all inmates to one degree or another: > > 1. shock during the initial admission phase to the camp, > 2. apathy after becoming accustomed to camp existence, in which the inmate values only that which helps himself and his friends survive, and > 3. reactions of [depersonalization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization), moral deformity, bitterness, and disillusionment if he survives and is liberated.[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning#cite_note-6) > > Frankl concludes that the [meaning of life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meaning_of_life) is found in every moment of living; life never ceases to have meaning, even in suffering and death. In a [group therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_therapy) session during a mass fast inflicted on the camp’s inmates trying to protect an anonymous fellow inmate from fatal retribution by authorities, Frankl offered the thought that for everyone in a dire condition there is someone looking down, a friend, family member, or even God, who would expect not to be disappointed. Frankl concludes from his experience that a prisoner’s psychological reactions are not solely the result of the conditions of his life, but also from the [freedom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_choice) he always has even in severe suffering. The inner hold a prisoner has on his spiritual self relies on having a hope in the future, and that once a prisoner loses that hope, he is doomed. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/190 "2023-07-27T02:15:18Z")
Frankl’s iconic book is so inspirational, so profound, so wise, I reread it every several years. Anyone who takes from it the lesson “Best to be useful should you ever find yourself in a Nazi concentration camp” is a seriously damaged villain. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/191 "2023-07-27T12:35:58Z")
Wasn’t Greg Gutfield supposed to be the conservative comedian? Because, boy, does he sound hilarious. Or, am I confusing him with some other loony? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/192 "2023-07-27T18:22:35Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Wasn’t Greg Gutfield supposed to be the conservative comedian? Because, boy, does he sound hilarious. Or, am I confusing him with some other loony? - Gutfeld has a talk show (titled _Gutfeld!_) so he’s probably the person you’re thinking of. It’s part of the Fox News Channel. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/193 "2023-07-27T20:13:51Z")
I’d always assumed Gutfeld was Jewish, based on his name, so I googled. The first return was: _Greg’s ethnicity is American white, and he is not Jewish, despite the fact that his father was._ I don’t think the Nazis would have made such fine distinctions. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/194 "2023-07-27T20:17:12Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > I don’t think the Nazis would have made such fine distinctions. Probably not but doesn’t Judaism say that it is the mother who matters in this…Jewish lineage is tracked through the female line? (I always presumed because there is no doubt who the mother is while there may be doubt about the father but I am not sure about that…a guess on my part). ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/195 "2023-07-27T20:17:12Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > I don’t think the Nazis would have made such fine distinctions. Should the current crop of fascists come to power I expect there’s going to be a whole lot of ‘_But I thought I was one of you!_’ going around. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/196 "2023-07-27T20:24:38Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > 🥷🏾 > If I didn’t type so slow… How sad that you were deprived of the opportunity to be enslaved. You might have learned valuable secretarial skills! ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/197 "2023-07-27T20:35:20Z")
Yes, you are correct that Judaism says that only people with Jewish mothers are Jewish by birth. The Nazis, of course, didn’t use that definition; IIRC they defined it as having a Jewish great-grandparent. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/198 "2023-07-27T20:41:58Z")
IIRC Israel’s Right Of Return doesn’t use just matrilineal descent either. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/199 "2023-07-27T21:37:47Z")
Being Nazi Germany, they made the [definition as needlessly complex as possible](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Classifications_under_the_laws); one Jewish great-grandparent wasn’t a problem, and one Jewish grandparent only made you a _Mischling_ of the second degree. Two Jewish grandparents is where it gets complicated and you’d either be a _Mischling_ of the first degree or a Jew, depending on a slew of other factors. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Nuremberg_laws_Racial_Chart.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Nuremberg_laws_Racial_Chart.jpg) Either way though, under Nazi definitions Greg’s a Jew. I’m sure he’d have had no problems fitting in and surviving in the extermination camps by proving his skills and utility to his Aryan overlords by proving how well he understood that to be the message in _Man’s Search for Meaning_ though. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/200 "2023-07-27T21:45:02Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Yes, you are correct that Judaism says that only people with Jewish mothers are Jewish by birth. IIRC, not all branches of Judaism adhere to that rule. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304.md?page=11)