# "Florida Schools Will Teach How Slavery Brought ‘Personal Benefit’ to Black People" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304 "2023-07-20T14:46:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/161 "2023-07-23T02:10:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not to mention that much of what they want to teach might not be too accurate (referencing the link in my previous post) And it strays into “good people on both sides” territory. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/162 "2023-07-23T02:24:32Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Perhaps some other Dopers who also grew up Left out _in the South_. 😱 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/163 "2023-07-23T02:29:50Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > But that is exactly what conservative orthodoxy demands. They believe in a hierarchy of intelligence/capability/lawfulness based on race. That’s pretty scummy, declaring something somebody does is not their fault, and demanding they be punished for doing that thing. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/164 "2023-07-23T02:36:48Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > declaring something somebody does is not their fault, and demanding they be punished for doing that thing. I believe that’s called “Protestantism”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/165 "2023-07-23T02:54:03Z")
I absolutely think that it’s important to teach that enslaved people had agency. Robert Smalls should be a name known to all kids by third grade as a goddamned American hero. Kids should study the Harpers Ferry raid, and should listen to Frederick Douglass’s speeches. You teach about the agency of enslaved people by showing how they resisted injustice, in the best tradition of our country. You don’t teach about the agency of enslaved people by teaching how their enslavers occasionally allowed them to earn some coin to purchase themselves and their family. Yes, that happened. That was a way that the system of chattel slavery strengthened itself and forced its victims literally to buy into its evil. Portraying that as a positive is perverse. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/166 "2023-07-23T09:19:43Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Sure, there may have been one guy at a plantation trained as a blacksmith, but that doesn’t change the fact that there were also a few hundred people out in the fields doing back-breaking manual labor every day of their lives. Mind you, blacksmithing is tough, hot, arduous, and dirty work which also happens to cause damage to your body even if you’re doing it right. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/167 "2023-07-23T10:29:34Z")
I’m very aware of the sentiment . . . and I grew in New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/168 "2023-07-23T14:29:16Z")
> **[Benefited from slavery? Critics say some of the state’s examples were never...](https://news.yahoo.com/benefited-slavery-critics-state-examples-204800717.html)** > > The battle over Florida’s new African American history standards grows more heated. > [@](#): > > Responding to mounting criticism, the department issued a statement Thursday offering 16 examples of historic figures it said fit that description. That they developed highly specialized abilities that helped them later in life is “factual and well documented,” the department stated. But not all of those 16 were actually enslaved or learned their skill while they were enslaved: > [@](#): > > Several critics argued that nearly half of the 16 historic figures highlighted by the state were never enslaved. Others, who did spend time in slavery, did not gain their skills from their servitude. Another point against what Florida is doing is that the number of people they cite is insignificant against the 10M people who were enslaved. To successfully argue that slavery gave the 10M enslaved people valuable skills, they would need to show that a significant portion of those people meet the criteria. If they can only find 16 people, even if they did meet the criteria, is just another example of the absurdity of what they are trying to do. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/169 "2023-07-23T15:37:42Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > If they can only find 16 people, even if they did meet the criteria, is just another example of the absurdity But when did facts and logic ever play any role in what they say and do? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/170 "2023-07-23T15:57:49Z")
Wait, you mean they’re full of shit? I am shocked! Shocked I say! ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/171 "2023-07-23T16:09:04Z")
I’m actually surprised they did any research at all, but this has the scent of research made after they were called out for their decision. I’m guessing the “research” they did before their announcement was them just sitting around a table just making stuff up. After it all blew up, they probably went to ChatGPT and asked it to find people who benefited from being enslaved. For instance, here’s what it says. It’s actually a pretty good response since it’s saying that learning the skills doesn’t justify slavery. But the education board probably just copied the names and didn’t read anything else. **Who are some people who learned skills from being enslaved?** ChatGPT Throughout history, some enslaved individuals did learn skills despite their oppressive conditions. These skills were often acquired out of necessity, survival, or as a means of resistance. While it is important to acknowledge these instances, it is crucial to remember that the learning of skills should not be seen as a justification for the institution of slavery or an attempt to downplay its atrocities. Here are some examples of individuals who learned skills while enslaved: 1. **Phillis Wheatley** (c. 1753-1784): An African American poet who was enslaved in Boston, Massachusetts. She learned to read and write at an early age, displaying extraordinary literary talent. Her poetry gained recognition, and she became the first published African American female poet. 2. **Benjamin Banneker** (1731-1806): An African American mathematician, astronomer, and surveyor who was born to free parents. However, his grandmother was a former enslaved person. Despite facing discrimination, Banneker taught himself various disciplines and became known for his expertise in astronomy and mathematics. 3. **Lewis Latimer** (1848-1928): An African American inventor and engineer who was the son of formerly enslaved parents. He worked as a draftsman and engineer and played a significant role in the development of the telephone and electric lightbulb. 4. **Elizabeth Keckley** (1818-1907): An African American dressmaker who bought her freedom and went on to become a prominent dressmaker, serving influential women, including Mary Todd Lincoln, the wife of President Abraham Lincoln. 5. **Jerry “Uncle Jerry” Henry** (c. 1785-1858): An enslaved blacksmith from Maryland who became known for his blacksmithing skills. He was allowed to work in various locations, allowing him to interact with a broader community. 6. **Solomon Northup** (1807-1863?): An African American man who was born free but was later kidnapped and sold into slavery. He was an accomplished musician, and his ability to play the violin allowed him to gain some autonomy and favor while enslaved. 7. **Frederick Douglass** (c. 1818-1895): While enslaved, Douglass secretly taught himself to read and write. He later escaped slavery and became a prominent abolitionist, writer, and speaker. These examples highlight the resilience and ingenuity of individuals who, despite being subjected to the horrors of slavery, managed to develop their skills and talents. However, it is essential to remember that these achievements do not in any way justify or mitigate the inhumane nature of slavery as an institution. The abolition of slavery was a critical step toward recognizing the inherent dignity and rights of all individuals, regardless of their background or circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/172 "2023-07-23T16:46:32Z")
Yes, some slaves gained or improved skills while being enslaved. Why is this notable? Gaining and improving skills is a normal part of being human, no more exceptional or unusual than traveling a few miles or trying a new food. But I don’t see “sometimes slaves got to try something new to eat”, or “sometimes slaves visited a town they hadn’t seen before” in the curriculum. New skills isn’t any more notable or useful for students. The only possible reason to include it in the curriculum is to provide some sort of subtle whitewashing of slavery – “see, it wasn’t so bad”. There’s no reason to give bad actors like these state officials any benefit of the doubt – they’re racists trying to excuse and whitewash past racism. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/173 "2023-07-23T18:24:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The only possible reason to include it in the curriculum is to provide some sort of subtle whitewashing of slavery – “see, it wasn’t so bad”. You’re being generous. It isn’t subtle. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/174 "2023-07-23T19:50:32Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I’m guessing the “research” they did before their announcement was them just sitting around a table just making stuff up. I doubt they made it up out of nothing. They most likely came up with it due to having been taught this sort of crap themselves. And it never occured to them to wonder whether any of it was true. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/175 "2023-07-23T22:46:32Z")
I’ll take a quick post to agree with **MandaJo** and **Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness** regarding agency of the enslaved, with a brief addendum regarding the exercise of that agency. Plenty of enslaved people exercised their agency - we know the names of Frederick Douglass, Sojourner Truth, Robert Smalls, Harriet Tubman, and others who escaped slavery - but its also important to remember that many others resisted the slave system in smaller ways, from work slowdowns and outright sabotage to learning literacy and worshiping outside the view of whites. These folks found cracks in the system, ways they could regain agency by defying the laws and customs without (or at a lower risk of) punishment. But there are those who refuse to acknowledge the constraints on agency of the enslaved imposed by the system. People like Kanye West, who said that 400 years of slavery “sounds like a choice”. Or the statement “you cannot enslave a free man, the most you can do is kill him” from Robert A. Heinlein’s _Double Star_. It can be easy for some to blame the enslaved for their condition, and attribute it to something wanting in their character. Hopefully needless to say, I don’t subscribe to this point of view, nor do I think that pointing out what agency enslaved people had implicates them in their own bondage. They did the best they could in the middle of a system designed to deny their enjoyment of the fruits of their labor, and to steal those fruits for the benefit of others. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/176 "2023-07-24T13:23:54Z")
The refutation of the arguments about the benefits of slavery have already ben made above. But here’s another 🙂 > **[Florida Board fails hilariously at proving "Slavery taught skills"](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/7/22/2182832/-Florida-Board-fails-hilariously-at-proving-Slavery-taught-skills?utm_campaign=trending)** > > So, in their attempt to defend Florida from the vicious attacks by Vice President Harris, Ron Desantis proclaimed that being an enslaved person “taught skills” which could be used later in life. (Presumably as a free person). Alex Wagner and... ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/177 "2023-07-24T13:31:31Z")
That is an excellent take-down. Hopefully enough of an anti-cite to satisfy those still willing to give the racist Floridians in charge of education the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/178 "2023-07-24T13:53:47Z")
They have George Washington’s _white_ sister on that list?? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/179 "2023-07-24T13:59:52Z")
If they knew about his _black_ sister, I’m sure they’d die of apoplexy ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304/180 "2023-07-24T14:10:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They have George Washington’s _white_ sister on that list?? It crossed my mind to wonder if there were two people with that name. But also to wonder if they saw the name “Washington” and assumed she was Black. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people/987304.md?page=10)