# Florida Supreme Court's independence under threat from Republicans **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 1, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581 "2012-11-01T16:34:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/1 "2012-11-01T16:34:42Z")
Next Tuesday, Floridians will get a chance to vote on “merit retention” of three (of the seven) justices of the Florida Supreme Court: [R. Fred Lewis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Fred_Lewis), [Barbara Pariente](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Pariente), and [Peggy Quince](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Quince). That much is routine – every justice comes up on the ballot for merit-retention every 6 years; the voters simply vote “YES” or “NO” on whether the justice should be retained in office. However, this year, Governor Rick Scott (R), the GOP and RW groups are mounting a campaign to unseat these justices, all of whom were appointed by the late Governor Lawton Chiles (D), as being to liberal/activist. See [here](http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/280556/8/Push-to-change-Floridas-future-flies-under-the-radar), [here,](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-10-31/news/os-justices-under-attack-20121030_1_justices-joseph-boyd-barbara-pariente-peggy-quince) and [here:](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/06/3037663/fla-supreme-court-justices-fight.html) > [@](#): > > The justices have now rid their robes to play politics in response to what has become the most politically-charged merit retention election in state history. They are fighting for their judicial lives as they fend off attacks from several conservative groups who want them booted from the high court’s bench. > In Florida, tea party groups and the Republican Party of Florida are targeting justices, with one conservative group even financing television ads. > > To combat the attacks, the justices have hired political consultants, created web sites and established political committees to raise money. Their supporters have raised at least $330,000 for each justice — more than most candidates running for the state House. > > The once sleepy, non-partisan, merit retention campaigns are now expensive political battles. > > “We had to speak out and educate, otherwise the attacks would go unanswered,’’ Quince explained to voters at a forum at Florida State University College of Law on Friday. > > Unlike other politicians, who can defend themselves against criticism, the judicial canons in Florida prohibit justices from soliciting donations and they often cannot talk about the cases for which they are being condemned. See [here](http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/merit-retention-chart) for a chart of controversial decisions by the justices in question. On the same ballot, BTW, will be a proposed constitutional amendment, [Amendment 5](http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Florida_Supreme_Court,_Amendment_5_(2012)) (sponsored by a Republican state legislator), intended to give the (currently Pub-controlled) legislature increased control over the judicial branch. If you vote in Florida, vote “YES” on retention and “NO” on Amendment 5! Preserve the political independence of the judicial branch! ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/2 "2012-11-01T17:18:59Z")
Vote “No” on retention and vote 'No" on amendment 5. Campaigning against these judges for bad decisions isn’t a violation of their “political independence” or any such nonsense. They were political appointments from the beginning and their continuance in office is subject to a majority vote. Folks should be allowed to voice their opinion for or against their continuation. Amendment 5 on the other hand seems like an overreach. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/3 "2012-11-01T17:31:51Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Vote “No” on retention and vote 'No" on amendment 5. Campaigning against these judges for bad decisions isn’t a violation of their “political independence” or any such nonsense. They were political appointments from the beginning and their continuance in office is subject to a majority vote. Folks should be allowed to voice their opinion for or against their continuation. > > Amendment 5 on the other hand seems like an overreach. Look, the merit-retention system was put in place in the 1970s to provide a way for voters to remove **corrupt** justices. This goes way beyond. [Former Governor Charlie Crist (R) writes:](http://www.gainesville.com/article/20121029/OPINION/121029549/1109/sports?Title=Charlie-Crist-Vote-Yes-for-merit-retention&tc=ar) > [@](#): > > We are witnessing a carefully calculated strategy to get rid of our current justices, all of whom serve honorably, so they can stack the court with justices who are anything but fair and impartial; justices who they expect are predisposed to do whatever these powerful few want at the cost of justice for the rest of us. > > The first step is to convince voters to oust the targeted justices under false pretenses, scouring their voting records on thousands of cases to find something they can hang their hat on, and label it, “Judicial Activism.” The stated reasons for removing these jurists have nothing to do with the real agenda going on behind the scenes. The real motives of those wishing to take over the justice system are not about any actual decisions; they are solely about greed and getting their way at all costs. > > While the specifics of who is orchestrating this effort is murky by design, one thing is crystal clear; the purpose is to eliminate judges who dare stand up to powerful groups. Make no mistake, this is about certain industries trying to gain control of our judiciary and that is simply not good for the overwhelming majority of Floridians. When they can’t change the laws in the way of their agendas then they seek to control those who will apply the laws. > > If they are successful in deceiving Floridians into voting these justices out they will turn to Gov. Scott, using the most influential lobbyists money can buy, promoting their roster of candidates who pass their litmus test. In my years as your Governor I saw firsthand the forces and the enormous pressure that can be brought to bear by wealthy industries. While I stood firmly in the way of their plans it is clear to me they have not given up. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/4 "2012-11-01T17:50:07Z")
Not to mention the laughably named [Freedom of Religion](http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Florida_Religious_Freedom,_Amendment_8_(2012)) amendment up for vote. Who wouldn’t want freedom of religion? Actually, it would allow public dollars for religious funding. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/5 "2012-11-01T17:55:48Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > Not to mention the laughably named [Freedom of Religion](http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Florida_Religious_Freedom,_Amendment_8_(2012)) amendment up for vote. Who wouldn’t want freedom of religion? Actually, it would allow public dollars for religious funding. [There are 11 constitutional amendments on the ballot this year](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=670618) and **all** of them were sponsored by Republican state legislators. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/6 "2012-11-01T19:21:39Z")
It’s so important to get as many voters as possible to the polls, but lord knows we can’t let them vote on stuff that might matter! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/7 "2012-11-01T19:24:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s so important to get as many voters as possible to the polls, but lord knows we can’t let them vote on stuff that might matter! ??? Did anyone here say that? What, please, are you trying to say? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/8 "2012-11-01T19:25:32Z")
Comrade **BG** explicitly urges people to vote and apparently regards the vote as important. Your point? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/9 "2012-11-01T19:34:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s so important to get as many voters as possible to the polls, but lord knows we can’t let them vote on stuff that might matter! 😕:dubious: Did you read the OP?! Yes, this is important, and I **want** Floridians to vote “YES” on retaining each judge! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/10 "2012-11-02T00:54:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕:dubious: Did you read the OP?! Yes, this is important, and I **want** Floridians to vote “YES” on retaining each judge! I read the OP, including the quotes you included in the OP. And the tone of those quotes is essentially as I posted. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/11 "2012-11-02T01:32:52Z")
So you have now become in \*favor \*of a politicized, subservient judiciary, Counselor? When did that happen? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/12 "2012-11-02T03:30:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I read the OP, including the quotes you included in the OP. > > And the tone of those quotes is essentially as I posted. How are you getting " we can’t let them vote on stuff that might matter!" from those quotes?! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/13 "2012-11-02T03:35:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How are you getting " we can’t let them vote on stuff that might matter!" from those quotes?! The process involves a latex glove and a little flashlight. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/14 "2012-11-02T03:38:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So you have now become in \*favor \*of a politicized, subservient judiciary, Counselor? When did that happen? He’s always had a politicized desire/expectation for the courts. That goes way back. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/15 "2012-11-02T03:44:20Z")
…and this is why direct democracy and judicial elections are bad ideas. Oh, I know you’re all about it, and yet here you are hoping that the people, who you trust with dogged faith (evidenced by a myriad of other threads), don’t make a decision that you think is bad. Where’s that unshakeable faith now? People get the government they want, and when you entrust the largely indifferent electorate to make decisions of this magnitude you get the government you deserve. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/16 "2012-11-02T04:05:12Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > …and this is why direct democracy and judicial elections are bad ideas. Oh, I know you’re all about it, and yet here you are hoping that the people, who you trust with dogged faith (evidenced by a myriad of other threads), don’t make a decision that you think is bad. Where’s that unshakeable faith now? > > People get the government they want, and when you entrust the largely indifferent electorate to make decisions of this magnitude you get the government you deserve. What the **fuck** are you talking about?! I say nothing here against the merit-retention-election system as such; I’m just taking a side in this one. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/17 "2012-11-02T04:25:29Z")
Oh, so you’ll be OK with the results if the Republican initiatives succeed? They’re just working the system, after all. The OP, as **Bricker** also observed, amounts to criticism of the Republicans for operating under the system that’s been created, not surprisingly to their advantage (imagine that!), which amounts to criticism of the system itself otherwise the Republicans would never be able to corrupt it so easily. Yet you still claim that you’re in favor of it. You still don’t see the flaw? If you don’t, it’s because you don’t want to. Oh, and you can leave your faux confusion at the door. You do it in every thread, and you understand completely what we’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/18 "2012-11-02T12:48:16Z")
Well those were a bizarre pair of posts. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/19 "2012-11-02T12:53:28Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Oh, so you’ll be OK with the results if the Republican initiatives succeed? They’re just working the system, after all. > > The OP, as **Bricker** also observed, amounts to criticism of the Republicans for operating under the system that’s been created, not surprisingly to their advantage (imagine that!), which amounts to criticism of the system itself otherwise the Republicans would never be able to corrupt it so easily. Yet you still claim that you’re in favor of it. I don’t say I’m in favor of it, either; the existence of the merit-retention system is not at issue here. I’m saying the Pubs/RWs/corporate interests are abusing it. See post #3 – Gov. Crist expresses my sentiments exactly. And he is not demanding the system be abolished. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581/20 "2012-11-02T13:02:45Z")
Wow. Deep in the heart of silly season, I see. The OP expresses his political opinion that voters ought not toss out Supreme Court Justices based on political preference. This is liberal hypocrisy? If so, I’ll take two helpings. I’ll be very happy when everyone gets slightly more sane on Nov. 25th (when the election is finally decided by the Supreme Court). 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-supreme-courts-independence-under-threat-from-republicans/639581.md?page=2)