# Florida Voter Registration Scandal **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 30, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322 "2012-09-30T18:31:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/21 "2012-10-01T11:54:07Z")
This may not affect the top of the ticket, but what about the local elections? A few thousand votes could make a huge difference in those. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/22 "2012-10-01T14:03:15Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > This may not affect the top of the ticket, but what about the local elections? A few thousand votes could make a huge difference in those. Except that no one is/was going to show up to vote for these fake registrations. It wasn’t (or shouldn’t have been) a big deal when it happened with ACORN, and it isn’t a big deal when it happens with a firm hired by the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/23 "2012-10-01T14:13:45Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Except that no one is/was going to show up to vote for these fake registrations. It wasn’t (or shouldn’t have been) a big deal when it happened with ACORN, and it isn’t a big deal when it happens with a firm hired by the Republicans. In the case of ACORN, the fake registrations were largely made-up. “Mickey Mouse” and the like being registered. As you say, since Mickey Mouse isn’t going to actually show up to vote, it doesn’t do any harm beyond wasting ACORN’s money. In this case with the SAC, it sounds like a lot of the fake registrations were registering real people who were already registered to new (fake) addresses. In that case, the real people will show up to vote but will have trouble actually getting their vote counted because of the mismatch between their real address and their fake address. Again, I’m sceptical that either phenomena was part of some orchestrated plot. ACORN just gave their employees a quota and a few unethical employees made up names to fill it, SAC gave their employees roles of Republican voters to call and make sure they were registered at their current addresses and a few unethical employees just made up new addresses instead of calling. But orchestrated or not, it does seem the SAC screw-up has a greater potential to do actual harm, as actual voters will have trouble voting. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/24 "2012-10-01T14:34:21Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > They were accused of doing those things, but the DOJ investigation didn’t charge them with anything, which does in fact get them off the hook. Legally, yes. It doesn’t get anyone off the hook for doing business with an outfit they knew to be shady. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/25 "2012-10-01T15:16:41Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > In the case of ACORN, the fake registrations were largely made-up. “Mickey Mouse” and the like being registered. As you say, since Mickey Mouse isn’t going to actually show up to vote, it doesn’t do any harm beyond wasting ACORN’s money. > > In this case with the SAC, it sounds like a lot of the fake registrations were registering real people who were already registered to new (fake) addresses. In that case, the real people will show up to vote but will have trouble actually getting their vote counted because of the mismatch between their real address and their fake address. Thanks, I hadn’t known about that difference. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/26 "2012-10-01T15:36:47Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > In the case of ACORN, the fake registrations were largely made-up. “Mickey Mouse” and the like being registered. As you say, since Mickey Mouse isn’t going to actually show up to vote, it doesn’t do any harm beyond wasting ACORN’s money. > > In this case with the SAC, it sounds like a lot of the fake registrations were registering real people who were already registered to new (fake) addresses. In that case, the real people will show up to vote but will have trouble actually getting their vote counted because of the mismatch between their real address and their fake address. Ah. I got confused by the news stories, and I thought that the suppression of Democratic voters was part of another story with the same culprit from several years ago. Can anyone cite that the problem **Simplicio** describes above is a real problem with the current case–that is, that people might find themselves removed from the rolls at their current polling place due to a fake change-of-address form? If so, then yeah, that’s much worse than what ACORN did, although it’s almost certainly not a conspiratorial action (quite the opposite, actually, since the likeliest victims of this action would probably be the Republican voters that SAC is presumably targeting) Edit: or, y’know, I could not be a lazy schmuck myself and could read the OP’s link: > [@article from the OP](#): > > Bodenstein stressed that elections officials would strive to protect every vote. > > “We will not disenfranchise anybody,” she said. > > But if fraudulent forms changing the addresses of actual voters are inadvertently processed, they could create obstacles at the polls. If someone’s address is changed within the same county, they could still cast a ballot once poll workers were able to establish that the voter was in the correct precinct. > > “It’s another step the clerk, the poll worker and the voter would have to go through in order to cast a vote,” Davis said. > > Things would get more complicated if a voter’s address has been changed to another county. If that were the case, the voter would be forced to cast a provisional ballot, which would be evaluated later in the week by a local canvassing board. So yeah: real screwup here, far worse than ACORN’s. Sounds like it’ll hurt Republicans more htan Democrats, though, and I’ll try to keep the schadenfreude in check. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/27 "2012-10-01T16:59:11Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > In the case of ACORN, the fake registrations were largely made-up. “Mickey Mouse” and the like being registered. As you say, since Mickey Mouse isn’t going to actually show up to vote, it doesn’t do any harm beyond wasting ACORN’s money. Actually, IIRC, the Mickey Mouse in that case was a real person. (With abominably cruel parents, one infers.) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/28 "2012-10-01T17:57:26Z")
I don’t normally subscribe to conspiracy theories, but…this is just too easy. Given the Machiavellian nature of Rove et al, I would not put it past them to intentionally get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, just so they can say “see? voter fraud really exists!” and then get on with their larger agenda, of suppressing Democratic votes. It’s like someone who wants a job as a Bigfoot Hunter, hiring someone to wear a Bigfoot suit and terrorize the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/29 "2012-10-01T18:14:30Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I don’t normally subscribe to conspiracy theories, but…this is just too easy. Given the Machiavellian nature of Rove et al, I would not put it past them to intentionally get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, just so they can say “see? voter fraud really exists!” and then get on with their larger agenda, of suppressing Democratic votes. I’ve seen someone else suggest this, and it’s crazytalk. Rove is Machiavellian, but the idea that this is going to turn out well for Republicans is silly. What it’s really going to do is make it hard for them to act self-righteous when it comes to questions of voter fraud and makes it easy for Dems like me to look all bipartisan and extra-principled and fair when we say that this fraud doesn’t really matter as long as it doesn’t keep people from voting. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/30 "2012-10-01T18:18:12Z")
No actual voters had fraudulent intentions to vote. Rather this is a case of a political party hiring a company with a known shady past (and encouraging that company to set up a shell in order to hide their tainted name), and then that company doing exactly the same crappy and fraudulent job that it did in the past. There are a few possibilities it seems to me: Level 1 - Sproul’s companies were poorly run, and hired folks who did a lazy/crappy job. In addition, Sproul’s companies did not have safeguards in place that would help them identify workers who were making up bogus registrations just to get paid. Essentially just the same as ACORN’s woes, with a few important distinctions - 1. The RNC hired Sproul’s companies directly. 2. ACORN complied with the law and did everything right. They are the ones who identified the bogus registrations. Sproul’s companies did not correctly identify the fraudulent registrations - they were caught by others. 3. ACORN paid the ultimate price despite doing nothing wrong -Republican politicians went apeshit. Sproul will likely just rename his companies and continue in the business with his good client the RNC. No Republican politicians will mention this event. Level 2 - Many of Sproul’s employees independently decided over several counties and different states to correctly register potential Republican voters but to make address and other errors on potential Democratic party voters forms. This would have the effect of making it harder for these newly registered Democrats to vote. Level 3 - Sproul’s employees were told by higher ups in the company to correctly register potential Republican voters and to make errors on potential Democratic party voters forms. This would have the effect of making it harder for these newly registered Democrats to vote. Level 4 - As level 3, but the Sproul’s client (the RNC) gave these explicit directions to the company. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/31 "2012-10-01T18:35:59Z")
Aren’t the only ones screwed if this is true the GOP? as in on top of the scandal won’t this mean some GOP voters won’t get to vote? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/32 "2012-10-01T18:36:08Z")
Well, there is one other. That the fucksticks hired to do the actual work couldn’t find enough people to register as Republicans. Perhaps the quotas were set at too optimistic a level? Or perhaps the people who might register as Republicans already were? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/33 "2012-10-01T19:14:52Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Aren’t the only ones screwed if this is true the GOP? as in on top of the scandal won’t this mean some GOP voters won’t get to vote? Not if the company submitted correct forms for GOP voters, but deliberately screwed up the forms for potential Democratic voters. (level 2, 3 and 4 above) ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/34 "2012-10-01T19:49:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Meh. While this is kind of funny in an egg-on-the-face way, it’s the most trivial sort of electoral fraud imaginable. Fake registrations have zero influence on the actual election. Nobody shows up to cast a fake vote when some lazy schmuck creates a fake registration in order to meet a quota. > > I hope folks can get a chuckle out of this petard-hoisting, and then move on to real election issues such as voter suppression. But … but … VOTER CONFIDENCE!!!111!1!! (You knew somebody had to say it sooner or later.) ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/35 "2012-10-02T00:26:13Z")
Forget it Jocko. They aren’t going to show. No matter how many times you say their name, they’ve ducked out of this. I’m assuming that it’s embarrasment that their side got caught at such obvious shenanigans. ETA, what the hell, let’s try… Bricker. Bricker. Bricker. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/36 "2012-10-02T00:35:22Z")
\ ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/37 "2012-10-02T01:21:03Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > \ \ ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/38 "2012-10-02T02:28:44Z")
But that was the ACME Bricker call! C’mon, they’re endorsed by the Coyote! They can’t have steered me wrong, can they? Next thing to go wrong is to find out that Egg McMuffins aren’t weight loss food…wait, what!? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/39 "2012-10-02T02:35:10Z")
Try a dog whistle? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322/40 "2012-10-02T02:41:13Z")
Oohhh…good idea! THE FELONS ARE VOTING! THE FELONS ARE VOTING! THE FELONS ARE VOTING! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-voter-registration-scandal/636322.md?page=3)