# Florida's modern-day executions are too humane... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533 "2011-10-13T14:33:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533/141 "2011-10-15T15:27:51Z")
[Okay here’s what I found:](http://deathpenalty.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=1003) > [@](#): > > Daniel N. Lerman, JD, PhD, in an Aug. 2007 Georgetown Law Journal article titled “Second Opinion: Inconsistent Deference to Medical Ethics in Death Penalty Jurisprudence,” wrote: > > ``` > "Of the thirty-seven death penalty states using lethal injection, seventeen require the presence of a physician, and eighteen allow physician assistance. Only two states, Kentucky and Illinois, forbid physician participation or presence in executions." > > ``` The arithmetic gets a little difficult to follow. The way it reads, only two forbid the presence of a physician; and thirty-five either permit it or require it, and of the eighteen that only permit it (without requiring it), they also permit participation. And the other seventeen require the physician’s presence but forbid participation. Seems a little too pat. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533/142 "2011-10-15T16:24:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Lawyers are professionally amoral; doctors aren’t. I disagree. Lawyers and doctors both take oaths. Lawyers are supposed to do whatever they can, within the scope of the law, to advance their client’s legal interests. Doctors are supposed to do whatever they can, within the scope of accepted medical practice, to protect their client’s health. Suppose there’s a person who’s been convicted of multiple murders and other horrendous crimes and is sentenced to death. His lawyer is appealing the death sentence and trying to get it overturned. Meanwhile the prisoner has a lief threatening medical emergency and is taken to a hospital. The doctor there is doing all he can to correct the medical problem. So you have a murderer. And you have both a doctor and a lawyer doing their duty in trying to keep him alive. I don’t feel either one is acting more morally than the other. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533/143 "2011-10-15T17:24:22Z")
The reason a doctor is not allowed to participate for ethical reasons in an execution (i. e., putting the prisoner to death, not performing the posthumous exam for a death certificate) is one of the requirements called out in the Hippocratic Oath. > [@](#): > > “…I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked…” I’m surprised no one has brought this up before. When lethal injection first came up as an alternate form of execution a couple of decades ago, I remember some MDs stating quite clearly that, while they strongly believed in the death penalty, they could not directly participate in the execution as it was a violation of the oath. In addition, they also saw problems respect to the state laws and ethical requirements at the time (which per **kaylasdad99** reference shows actions taken to ameliorate those concerns). AFAIK, no MD in the US has ever performed an execution. These executions have been performed by technicians whom I WAG are not bound by the same standard. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533/144 "2011-10-15T17:53:37Z")
NSFW: You could always go like [Arthur Jarrett](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLctf4o6feQ). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533/145 "2011-10-15T18:28:02Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > The reason a doctor is not allowed to participate for ethical reasons in an execution (i. e., putting the prisoner to death, not performing the posthumous exam for a death certificate) is one of the requirements called out in the Hippocratic Oath. > > > [@](#): > > > > “…I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked…” > > I’m surprised no one has brought this up before. That’s the classical version of the oath that had healers swearing to Apollo. The line you quoted says, _“I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.”_ This ancient oath also forbid healers from performing surgery, required them to remain celibate, and to share their house with the person who taught them medicine. Obviously some parts of this oath have been changed over the centuries. Here’s a modern version of a physician’s oath: > [@](#): > > I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant: > > I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow. > > I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures that are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism. > > I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon’s knife or the chemist’s drug. > > I will not be ashamed to say “I know not”, nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient’s recovery. > > I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God. > > I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person’s family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick. > > I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure. > > I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm. > > If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help. There’s nothing in this that explicitly forbids a physician from participating in an execution. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533/146 "2011-10-15T19:51:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s the classical version of the oath that had healers swearing to Apollo. The line you quoted says, _“I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.”_ This ancient oath also forbid healers from performing surgery, required them to remain celibate, and to share their house with the person who taught them medicine. > > Obviously some parts of this oath have been changed over the centuries. > > Here’s a modern version of a physician’s oath:There’s nothing in this that explicitly forbids a physician from participating in an execution. Thank you. I stand corrected. But honestly, I do remember doctors bring up the Hippocratic Oath (or whatever current version was being invoked at the time) as reason why they could not participate in an execution. (admittedly, there might have been pro-death penalty doctors who believed that the oath did not apply in this situation; but don’t recall anyone making an implicit or explicit argument at the time. Newspapers were the prime news source at the time. Also, I was in California at the time, so that probably biased my understanding…). ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533/147 "2011-10-15T23:45:59Z")
The following is a link to “the Fifteen Most Bizarre Movie Deaths” I’d gone looking for the one listed as #2, or, “The Mare of Steel” [http://www.totalfilm.com/features/15-bizarre-movie-deaths/page:3](http://www.totalfilm.com/features/15-bizarre-movie-deaths/page:3) Some interesting suggestions. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533/148 "2011-10-16T02:08:58Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > But they’re MURDEROUS bits! Og knows what a killer lung might do to you. No kidding, you might end up with an [evil hand](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewQwZroEuec). ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533/149 "2011-10-16T19:33:52Z")
It could be a money maker. You could strap the guy up to a post and charge people ten bucks to swat him with a hammer. I am sure lots of death penalty fans would pay . ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533/150 "2011-10-17T17:47:22Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It could be a money maker. You could strap the guy up to a post and charge people ten bucks to swat him with a hammer. I am sure lots of death penalty fans would pay . There was a lawyer around here, Joe “The Hammer” Shapiro, who’s TV commercials were so annoying that it tempted many of us to apply that very penalty to Joe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-modern-day-executions-are-too-humane/599533.md?page=7)