# Florida's Stand Your Ground law - good or bad law? Poorly understood? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560 "2012-03-22T23:59:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/481 "2012-03-27T11:45:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So why did you post it here? > > For the record, the [pictures referenced are not Trayvon Martin](http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/03/trayvon_martin_no_thats_not_hi.php). Just more character assassination by bigoted thugs. Ignorance fought. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/482 "2012-03-27T11:54:36Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I also read some piece that I don’t have a link to (so I doubt its truthfulness) that these media pictures of Martin being a fresh-faced sweet young kid are all bullshit. That on his Facebook page he is all tatted up and has a bunch of ghetto slang on it. He was also suspended from school for selling weed. > > If true, those are just as important as Zimmerman’s hot-headedness or racism because it is evidence (at least to me) that Martin would act like a young punk and start throwing punches instead of answering questions from an adult. Even if Martin threw some punches there’s documented evidence he was scared by Zimmerman’s creepy threatening stalking through the night. It doesn’t fucking matter if Zimmerman was punched. He was a clear threat to Martin. Some creep stalks you through the night despite your attempts to get away, and approaches you with a gun, ignoring your questions, wouldn’t you feel threatened? Bottom line, even if Martin beat the crap out of Zimmerman he was justified in self defense. Zimmerman had zero right to murder a child trying to defend himself. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/483 "2012-03-27T12:37:19Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I also read some piece that I don’t have a link to (so I doubt its truthfulness) that these media pictures of Martin being a fresh-faced sweet young kid are all bullshit. That on his Facebook page he is all tatted up and has a bunch of ghetto slang on it. He was also suspended from school for selling weed. > > If true, those are just as important as Zimmerman’s hot-headedness or racism because it is evidence (at least to me) that Martin would act like a young punk and start throwing punches instead of answering questions from an adult. Martin was suspended for having trace amounts of weed. Zimmerman is the gun toting thug with a history of police violence and random/racist harassment/shootings. I’d trust a pot smoker over a gun smoker any day of the fucking week. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/484 "2012-03-27T12:52:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Police lied Friday, Crump said, when they said Tracy Martin said the voice crying for help was not his son. What Tracy Martin told police, Crump said, was that “he couldn’t tell, that it was too distorted.” > > The audio has since been cleaned up, and now Tracy Martin has no doubt but that the voice is his son, Crump said. [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316\_1\_deadly-shooting-shot-man-reports/2](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316_1_deadly-shooting-shot-man-reports/2) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/485 "2012-03-27T12:56:16Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I also read some piece that I don’t have a link to (so I doubt its truthfulness) that these media pictures of Martin being a fresh-faced sweet young kid are all bullshit. That on his Facebook page he is all tatted up and has a bunch of ghetto slang on it. He was also suspended from school for selling weed. At least one of those photos being send around are of a different kid. That said, who gives a shit? I also don’t care if there are pictures of George Zimmerman slinging gang signs at a camera. Young men and teenagers put on a show for the camera, big deal. What the two did immediately prior to the incident could matter. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/486 "2012-03-27T13:19:06Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > He was also suspended from school for selling weed. Martin was suspended because he was found with an [empty baggie in his backpack](http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/26/pot-blamed-for-trayvon-martins-suspension/). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/487 "2012-03-27T14:49:10Z")
I’m shocked! Shocked! A 17-year-old who smoked pot! I certainly didn’t know anyone who smoked pot in high school! Sarcasm aside, in my experience not only is experimenting with pot fairly normal, I’ve never seen any compelling evidence linking pot and violence. If anything, just the opposite is true. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/488 "2012-03-27T14:57:13Z")
I didn’t see anyone drawing any conclusions from the fact that he might have smoked pot. I suppose you could draw some from the allegation that he was _selling_ it, per **jtgain** ’s source, if it were true. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/489 "2012-03-27T15:10:08Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > It’s actually quite amusing that Terr has spent the last several posts demanding that his opponents “name” the witnesses who say that they heard Trayvon scream for help and who contradict his preferred version of events while the witness that he chooses to believe he can’t name since the person has refused to be photographed or give his name to the media. “John”. And he certainly gave his name to the police when he gave them the testimony. I can see how due to the black ragegasm about this he would not want his name publicly known. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/490 "2012-03-27T15:12:43Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316\_1\_deadly-shooting-shot-man-reports/2](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316_1_deadly-shooting-shot-man-reports/2) But of course. It wouldn’t be advantageous in any way for the father to tell the truth now that the black rage campaign is in full swing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/491 "2012-03-27T15:13:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “John”. And he certainly gave his name to the police when he gave them the testimony. I can see how due to the black ragegasm about this he would not want his name publicly known. Your hood is showing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/492 "2012-03-27T15:18:39Z")
[sips tea]The lads and I were at the country club yesterday, having a conversation about this, “black ragism” that has infused the hoi polloi these days. [/sips tea] Dreadful business, that. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/493 "2012-03-27T15:27:55Z")
[MODERATING] This isn’t the Pit. Please bear that in mind. This is not a forum for personal insults, trolling, or race baiting. I’m not singling anyone out but things are on the verge. Thanks, RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/494 "2012-03-27T15:40:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > [MODERATING] > > This isn’t the Pit. Please bear that in mind. This is not a forum for personal insults, trolling, or race baiting. I’m not singling anyone out but things are on the verge. > > Thanks, > > RickJay > Moderator I will single some people out. **Terr** and **dontbesojumpy** , do not accuse any other poster of trolling in any forum except The BBQ Pit. Period, no exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/495 "2012-03-27T15:54:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “John”. And he certainly gave his name to the police when he gave them the testimony. I can see how due to the black ragegasm about this he would not want his name publicly known. “Black rageism”?:dubious: Anyway I think it’s amusing that after demanding that DNJ “name them” Terr still won’t admit he can’t “name” the witness who confirms his world view. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/496 "2012-03-27T16:00:04Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > “Black rageism”?:dubious: > > Anyway I think it’s amusing that after demanding that DNJ “name them” Terr still won’t admit he can’t “name” the witness who confirms his world view. “Ragegasm”. [Of this kind](http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/zimmermanshirtlarge.jpg). And yes, I named the witness. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/497 "2012-03-27T16:19:28Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Ragegasm”. [Of this kind](http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/zimmermanshirtlarge.jpg). And yes, I named the witness. In addition to being offensively racist, this comment is jaw-droppingly stupid. You didn’t “name” the witness, because the news report specifically didn’t say what his full name was. Again, it’s quite hysterical how Terr refuses to admit that he can’t do what he repeatedly demanded that DNJ do. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/498 "2012-03-27T16:28:39Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > In addition to being offensively racist, this comment is jaw-droppingly stupid. > > You didn’t “name” the witness, because the news report specifically didn’t say what his full name was. The media only knows the pseudonym under which the witness presented himself to the media. But the witness was interrogated by the police, who have his full name. And yes, as I said, due to the widespread black ragegasm, of whch [this](http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/zimmermanshirtlarge.jpg) is just an example, it is quite understandable that the witness doesn’t want to reveal his full name to the media. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/499 "2012-03-27T16:29:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > widespread black ragegasm Using that word repeatedly is not helping your case. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560/500 "2012-03-27T16:32:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Using that word repeatedly is not helping your case. It’s an accurate description. The “Pussy Ass Cracker” tshirts featuring Zimmerman. The call by Black Panthers for “5000 black men” to commit a kidnapping (for which they can get up to life in prison in Florida). It’s an accurate description. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-good-or-bad-law-poorly-understood/616560.md?page=26)