# Flouride - dental savior or poison?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 7, 2013, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744 "2013-12-07T12:04:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/21 "2013-12-07T19:02:01Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#):
>
> Fluoride is vary bad—for dentists.
nah, still plenty of work to do. Fluoride has reduced decay but increased sugar intake offsets alot of it in many populations.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/22 "2013-12-07T19:26:08Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#):
>
> You ever seen a Russkie drink water?
>
> Vodka. That’s what your average Russkie drinks. There’s no flouride in vodka.
>
> And, did you know that they’re even putting flouride in ice cream? _Children’s ice cream_?
They’re poisoning our precious bodily fluids!
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/23 "2013-12-07T21:50:03Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#):
>
> The chemical name for water is oxidane, not dihydrogen monoxide as commonly/wrongly mentioned. It is a chemical like methane that does not follow standard naming protocol. . . .
Couldn’t you say both are right? Couldn’t you just as legitimately call methane tetrahydrocarbon? (I found that word on Google; I didn’t just make it up.)
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_York](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_York)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/24 "2013-12-08T00:03:16Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> The evidence is solid that fluoride added to drinking water and toothpaste is a [safe and effective](http://www.who.int/oral_health/media/en/orh_cdoe_319to321.pdf)
> /url]
Are these Doctors the same Doctors who said that Thalidomide was safe and effective?
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/25 "2013-12-08T00:14:51Z")
The evidence showed them wrong. Do you have similar evidence?
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/26 "2013-12-08T00:31:01Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_York](#):
>
> Are these Doctors the same Doctors who said that Thalidomide was safe and effective?
Actually, it was the company that claimed it was safe. This was before stringent pre-market testing.
[Thalidomide.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#Development)
> [@](#):
>
> Thalidomide was developed by German pharmaceutical company Grünenthal GmbH, who obtained a patent for it in 1954.It was prescribed as a sedative, tranquilizer, and antiemetic for morning sickness. Thalidomide, launched by Grünenthal on 1 October 1957, was proclaimed a “wonder drug” for insomnia, coughs, colds and headaches. It was also found to be an effective antiemetic that had an inhibitory effect on morning sickness[citation needed]. During this time period the use of medications during pregnancy was not strictly controlled, and drugs were not thoroughly tested for potential harm to the fetus.
ETA:
> [@](#):
>
> For correctly denying the application despite the pressure from Richardson-Merrell, Kelsey eventually received the President’s Award for Distinguished Federal Civilian Service at a 1962 ceremony with President John F. Kennedy. In September 2010, the FDA honored Kelsey with the first Kelsey award. The award, given annually to an FDA staff member, came 50 years after Kelsey, then a new medical officer at the agency, first reviewed the application from the William S. Merrell Company of Cincinnati.
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_York](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_York)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/27 "2013-12-08T00:35:04Z")
> [@Trinopus](#):
>
> The evidence showed them wrong. Do you have similar evidence?
Apart from the evidence that hospital errors kill over 200,000 people each year, there are countless reports of drugs being withdrawn due to patients suffering death and severe side effects. I’m just pointing out that Doctors are not always right.
As far as fluoride is concerned I think that consuming small amounts of poison every day of your life is not a good idea.
If you agree with the government mass medicating us then lets go the whole hog and add more drugs to the water.
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_York](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_York)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/28 "2013-12-08T00:38:48Z")
> [@runner pat](#):
>
> Actually, it was the company that claimed it was safe. This was before stringent pre-market testing.
It was the doctors who were sticking the needle in the arm.
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### Author:  [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/29 "2013-12-08T00:39:17Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_York](#):
>
> I’m just pointing out that Doctors are not always right.
> As far as fluoride is concerned I think that consuming small amounts of poison every day of your life is not a good idea.
Just curious, why do you capitalize the word “doctors?” Edit: Except for that time. And thalidomide is not an injected medication, it’s oral.
Also, I assure you that you consume “small amounts of poison” daily in nearly every sort of food, both naturally-occurring and artificial. Plants produce all kinds of natural toxins to discourage predators and disease.
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/30 "2013-12-08T00:43:10Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_York](#):
>
> I’m just pointing out that Doctors are not always right.
No, you weren’t “just” doing that. You were trying to undermine the credibility of doctors, hence enhancing the argument you were making.
> [@Duke\_of\_York](#):
>
> As far as fluoride is concerned I think that consuming small amounts of poison every day of your life is not a good idea.
Why not? A single ounce of 20 proof ethanol daily will have no effect on you. And depending on who you ask, maybe potentially be beneficial.
And as mentioned above, small amounts of vitamin A daily actually is a good idea, though large amounts is toxic.
Lots of things are toxic at large doses but perfectly safe or even beneficial at smaller doses.
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_York](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_York)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/31 "2013-12-08T00:55:24Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> No, you weren’t “just” doing that. You were trying to undermine the credibility of doctors, hence enhancing the argument you were making.
>
> Why not? A single ounce of 20 proof ethanol daily will have no effect on you. And depending on who you ask, maybe potentially be beneficial.
>
> And as mentioned above, small amounts of vitamin A daily actually is a good idea, though large amounts is toxic.
>
> Lots of things are toxic at large doses but perfectly safe or even beneficial at smaller doses.
Some doctors don’t need me to discredit them.
OK, lets add ethanol and vitamin A into the water. Where do we stop?
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### Author:  [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/32 "2013-12-08T01:04:55Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_York](#):
>
> As far as fluoride is concerned I think that consuming small amounts of poison every day of your life is not a good idea.
One of the usual fallacies. The “if lots of something is bad, a small amount must be bad too.”
There is essentially nothing you eat drink or breath that will not kill you in large enough quantities. There are enormous amounts of things that we eat or drink all the time that will kill us in not terribly large quantities. Many herb and spice flavours are poisons evolved by plants to kill their animal pests. As noted above, a lot of essential components of our diet - Vitamin A being the poster child - will kill you if you eat too much, but you will die if you don’t eat enough.
Our bodies evolved with a requirement for fluorine. It isn’t a drug that causes enhanced tooth strength by some action on our bodies. It is a component of tooth enamel. If you have no fluorine in your diet your body is unable to make the tooth enamel properly and you end up with soft enamel that is subject to attack easier. It is not a lot different to calcium in this respect - not enough calcium and your bones are weak. As humans spread across the planet it seems some places we got to didn’t have enough fluorine naturally occurring in the water. So when we worked out what was wrong, we put it back.
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### Author:  [@Nisslbody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nisslbody)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/33 "2013-12-08T01:14:13Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_York](#):
>
> Apart from the evidence that hospital errors kill over 200,000 people each year, there are countless reports of drugs being withdrawn due to patients suffering death and severe side effects. I’m just pointing out that Doctors are not always right.
> As far as fluoride is concerned I think that consuming small amounts of poison every day of your life is not a good idea.
> If you agree with the government mass medicating us then lets go the whole hog and add more drugs to the water.
Almost all of the constituents of our body are “poison” if you take too much. Substances aren’t “poison” or “nonpoison”, they are poisonOUS at high enough doses. The same substance that is beneficial and even necessary to support life at one level can kill you at another. Iron, just to name one of many examples.
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### Author:  [@Nisslbody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nisslbody)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/34 "2013-12-08T01:15:47Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#):
>
> Just curious, why do you capitalize the word “doctors?” Edit: Except for that time. And **thalidomide is not an injected medication, it’s oral**.
>
> Also, I assure you that you consume “small amounts of poison” daily in nearly every sort of food, both naturally-occurring and artificial. Plants produce all kinds of natural toxins to discourage predators and disease.
I have a feeling he knows that.
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_York](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_York)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/35 "2013-12-08T01:30:27Z")
> [@Nisslbody](#):
>
> Almost all of the constituents of our body are “poison” if you take too much. Substances aren’t “poison” or “nonpoison”, they are poisonOUS at high enough doses. The same substance that is beneficial and even necessary to support life at one level can kill you at another. Iron, just to name one of many examples.
_ **I know,I know** _ I’m taking medications that would kill me in higher doses
My argument is about compulsory mass medication. At what point do you want to stop the government adding medication to the water supply?
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/36 "2013-12-08T01:33:27Z")
Edited to delete: never mind.
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_York](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_York)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/37 "2013-12-08T01:36:56Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#):
>
> Just curious, why do you capitalize the word “doctors?” Edit: Except for that time. And thalidomide is not an injected medication, it’s oral.
> .
Relax, it was a typo.
Another nit picking question, OK, I’ll change it to “It was the doctors who poured it down their throat” Happy now?
---
### Author:  [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/38 "2013-12-08T01:38:50Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#):
>
> One of the usual fallacies. The “if lots of something is bad, a small amount must be bad too.”
>
> There is essentially nothing you eat drink or breath that will not kill you in large enough quantities. There are enormous amounts of things that we eat or drink all the time that will kill us in not terribly large quantities. Many herb and spice flavours are poisons evolved by plants to kill their animal pests. As noted above, a lot of essential components of our diet - Vitamin A being the poster child - will kill you if you eat too much, but you will die if you don’t eat enough.
>
> Our bodies evolved with a requirement for fluorine. It isn’t a drug that causes enhanced tooth strength by some action on our bodies. It is a component of tooth enamel. If you have no fluorine in your diet your body is unable to make the tooth enamel properly and you end up with soft enamel that is subject to attack easier. It is not a lot different to calcium in this respect - not enough calcium and your bones are weak. As humans spread across the planet it seems some places we got to didn’t have enough fluorine naturally occurring in the water. So when we worked out what was wrong, we put it back.
Actually without fluoride the enamel is just fine and the primary mineral component is hydroxyapatite with fluoride added during enamel formation it forms fluorapatite instead. Fluorapatite is harder than hydroxyapatite and therefore more resistant to decay. With respect to everything else I couldn’t have said it better.
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/39 "2013-12-08T01:48:24Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_York](#):
>
> It was the doctors who were sticking the needle in the arm.
They were just following the orders of their Big Pharma overlords.
Joking.
---
### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_York](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_York)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flouride-dental-savior-or-poison/675744/40 "2013-12-08T01:59:26Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#):
>
> They were just following the orders of their Big Pharma overlords.
>
> Joking.
I hope you are joking, although I must admit it was not very funny.
Here’s another doctor joke to amuse you. Hey, doctor, I have a strawberry growing in my ear’ doctor" I’ll give you some cream for it"
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