# "Flu shots make me sick -- why on earth did I even bother?"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 30, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551 "2011-11-30T13:47:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/1 "2011-11-30T13:47:30Z")
I hear this _all the time_ from people who claim that flu shots actually make them sick. Is there any truth to the matter? Confirmation bias?
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/2 "2011-11-30T13:59:48Z")
At least one study looked closely at this:
> [@](#):
>
> Side effects associated with influenza vaccination in healthy working adults. A randomized, placebo-controlled trial.AUNichol KL, Margolis KL, Lind A, Murdoch M, McFadden R, Hauge M, Magnan S, Drake MSOArch Intern Med. 1996;156(14):1546.
>
> BACKGROUND: Concern about side effects is a barrier to influenza vaccination. This randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial assessed side effects following vaccination among healthy working adults.
>
> METHODS: Healthy working adults were recruited during October and November 1994 and were randomized to receive influenza vaccine or placebo injections. Local and systemic symptoms during the week following the injection were evaluated through structured telephone interviews.
>
> RESULTS: Of 849 subjects enrolled in the study, 425 received a placebo and 424 received influenza vaccine. Baseline characteristics were similar between the groups, and 99% of subjects completed interviews to assess side effects after the study injection. No differences were seen between the 2 groups for the systemic symptoms of fever, myalgias, fatigue, malaise, or headaches. Overall, 35.2% of placebo and 34.1% of vaccine recipients reported at least 1 of these systemic symptoms (P = .78, chi 2). Vaccine recipients reported a higher rate of arm soreness at the injection site than did placebo recipients (63.8% vs 24.1%, P\<.001). Local reactions were mild in both groups and infrequently resulted in decreased use of the arm. After logistic regression, female sex (odds ratio [OR], 1.5;95% confidence interval [CI], 1.1-2.1), age younger than 40 years (OR, 1.6;95% CI, 1.2-2.2), and coincidental upper respiratory tract illness (OR, 4.6; 95% CI, 3.2-6.6) were independently associated with higher rates of systemic symptoms. In the multivariate model, vaccine again was not associated with systemic symptoms (OR, 0.9; 95% CI, 0.7-1.2).
>
> CONCLUSIONS: Influenza vaccination of healthy working adults is not associated with higher rates of systemic symptoms when compared with placebo injection. These findings should be useful to physicians and other health care providers as they counsel patients to take advantage of an important opportunity for disease prevention and health protection. ADVeterans Affairs Medical Center, Minneapolis, USA.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/3 "2011-11-30T14:17:43Z")
Well Dr. Mercotan, I’ll have you know that I had a flu shot last week, and _immediately_ after the shot my left arm was sore and painful.
True, it was sore and painful _before_ the shot, seeing as how I had apparently deranged several muscles and tendons doing high-risk gardening, but it’s undeniable that I had pain after the shot. :dubious:
That study is impressive in that it found one-third of adults had systemic complaints after getting a shot, whether or not there was flu vaccine in it. Wonder what the percentage of people with such complaints would be if they didn’t get a shot at all (seeing as how common headache and “malaise” are, especially during flu season even in noninfected people).
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### Author:  [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/4 "2011-11-30T14:20:50Z")
Thanks for the real data!
I do know that my own employer has been pinching pennies like mad in recent years; but flu shots went from merely free to mandatory. We can submit forms explaining that I Already Got The Shot or I’m Allergic or I Don’t Hold With That Sciency Stuff; most of us gladly line up for the sake of herd immunity. They wouldn’t pay for the shots if they didn’t work–on the whole.
Years ago, I had extremely an minor fever & headache within 24 hours of getting the shot. The phenomenon hasn’t repeated & it was hardly as bad as having the flu. Not even close…
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### Author:  [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/5 "2011-11-30T14:27:20Z")
I have never had a flu shot. I have also not been sick in years, that I can recall.
My husband is very much against flu shots. He is not an anti-vaxer on anything else, but I admit his feelings about it have played a part in my decision to not ever get the shot either.
Is there something I could tell him that would convince him that we need these shots? He hasn’t been sick either.
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### Author:  [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/6 "2011-11-30T14:45:14Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> My husband is very much against flu shots. He is not an anti-vaxer on anything else, but I admit his feelings about it have played a part in my decision to not ever get the shot either.
>
> Is there something I could tell him that would convince him that we need these shots? He hasn’t been sick either.
What are his objections to getting the vaccine?
Large employers, IMHO, _should_ give everyone the shots by default (allowing for opt-outs like **Bridget** ’s). Ours offers them for free, but doesn’t really pressure employees to take advantage of them. They should tie it to other incentives they give us for not smoking, etc. I know it peeves me when someone on my team calls in sick for a week with the flu when they refused a shot earlier in the season.
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### Author:  [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/7 "2011-11-30T14:56:10Z")
The flu vaccine is a completely dead virus, so it shouldn’t be able to make you sick. My understanding is that, since flu shots are mostly given out when flu season is already in full swing, people receiving it might have already contracted the flu, in which case the vaccine wouldn’t help. They then get flu symptoms and erroneously blame the vaccine. If they get a flu shot again the next year, they might expect or fear getting ill again, and develop psychosomatic symptoms.
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### Author:  [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/8 "2011-11-30T15:54:53Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#):
>
> The flu vaccine is a completely dead virus, so it shouldn’t be able to make you sick. My understanding is that, since flu shots are mostly given out when flu season is already in full swing, people receiving it might have already contracted the flu, in which case the vaccine wouldn’t help. They then get flu symptoms and erroneously blame the vaccine. If they get a flu shot again the next year, they might expect or fear getting ill again, and develop psychosomatic symptoms.
+1
The worst case of flu I ever had started 1 day after a flu shot. I thought “damn, sucks to be me. I should have gotten this 3 weeks earlier”.
I still get my flu shot every year.
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### Author:  [@tommymann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tommymann)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/9 "2011-11-30T16:01:50Z")
I had a flu shot several years ago. For two or three days afterwards I was miserable. I had a headache, body pain, malaise. I work in a factory doing a physically demanding job and it was a very unpleasant couple days as I dragged myself around.
I complained to my doctor who at first had said there would be no after effects. She told me what I was experiencing was quite common. It was just my body reacting to the presence of the antibodies or whatever. That it was still a lot better than actually having the flu.
The last couple years my doctor has been lukewarm about flu shots. She says there are so many different varieties of flu that it’s really a gamble whether you’re being inoculated against the right one. She said since I had a “reaction” last time she’s okay with me just skipping it. Which I do.
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### Author:  [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/10 "2011-11-30T16:13:13Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> I have never had a flu shot. I have also not been sick in years, that I can recall.
>
> My husband is very much against flu shots. He is not an anti-vaxer on anything else, but I admit his feelings about it have played a part in my decision to not ever get the shot either.
>
> Is there something I could tell him that would convince him that we need these shots? He hasn’t been sick either.
Herd immunity. Tell him that it isn’t about him, but about those most vulnerable. Get the vaccine so you don’t get the flu and pass it on to people who either can’t take the vaccine or for whom the vaccine isn’t very effective.
More info on the efficacy of the vaccine can be found [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine#Effectiveness_of_vaccine):
> [@](#):
>
> The group most vulnerable to non-pandemic flu, the elderly, is also the least benefitted by the vaccine, with an average efficacy rate ranging from 40-50% at age 65, and only 15-30% past age 70.[100][101][102] There are multiple reasons behind this steep decline in vaccine efficacy, the most common of which are the declining immunological function and frailty associated with advanced age.
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### Author:  [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/11 "2011-11-30T16:20:48Z")
> [@Skammer](#):
>
> What are his objections to getting the vaccine?
I’ll have to ask him once he’s been up awhile, but I think Tommymann probably stated a lot of his thinking.
Why invite illness (maybe) when we’re perfectly healthy and have been for years. I think I may have had an actual flu one time in my life, my husband can’t remember ever having one. We aren’t exposed to a lot of people right now either, so there is that.
I should find out if we are required to have them if we get to open the deli. I know our son was required to in the Navy. That might solve the question for us.
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### Author:  [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/12 "2011-11-30T16:48:00Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> Is there something I could tell him that would convince him that we need these shots? He hasn’t been sick either.
I don’t think you _need_ them. They’re not common here in the UK, except for asthma sufferers and other high risk people who take them as a precaution. I’ve never had one, and I’m just fine, and the majority of people I know have never had one.
I don’t see why anyone would object to them, though. I’d probably do it if I could be bothered, but I just don’t see the need. The UK hasn’t been wiped out by a flue epidemic yet!
I wonder how common the practice is in the US vs. other western countries? As far as I’m aware it’s only in the US where there’s even a debate about it; nobody else seems to have any strong opinion one way or the other.
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### Author:  [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/13 "2011-11-30T16:50:24Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> I’ll have to ask him once he’s been up awhile, but I think Tommymann probably stated a lot of his thinking.
>
> Why invite illness (maybe) when we’re perfectly healthy and have been for years. I think I may have had an actual flu one time in my life, my husband can’t remember ever having one. We aren’t exposed to a lot of people right now either, so there is that.
>
> I should find out if we are required to have them if we get to open the deli. I know our son was required to in the Navy. That might solve the question for us.
How do you plan on keeping the deli operating if one or both of you get the flu and are out of commission for a week or more? Do you have a wad of cash or good health care insurance to cover your hospital stay when that flu develops into pneumonia? The risks of these things happening aren’t high, but they do exist.
Or you could get the shot because herd immunity is a nice thing to you can do for cancer patients, infants, and the elderly.
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### Author:  [@Pessemist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pessemist)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/14 "2011-11-30T16:54:41Z")
First of all getting the flu vaccine does not prevent you from getting the flu.
The vaccine is made from the strains of the previous years most prevalent flu virus. You are thus immune ONLY to those included in the vaccine.
That is why you need a NEW flu vaccine every year–to cover the NEW viruses that cropped up the previous season.
Everyone is different and to say the vaccine is without some risk is not realistic.
To illustrate just how different two people can be just take two kids: one allergic to peanuts and another not. Give them each a peanut butter sandwich and watch one fall over dead in anaphylactic shock while the second child asks for another.
Pesse (I’ll pass on the shot…) Mist
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### Author:  [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/15 "2011-11-30T17:24:21Z")
> [@Implicit](#):
>
> How do you plan on keeping the deli operating if one or both of you get the flu and are out of commission for a week or more? Do you have a wad of cash or good health care insurance to cover your hospital stay when that flu develops into pneumonia? The risks of these things happening aren’t high, but they do exist.
>
> Or you could get the shot because herd immunity is a nice thing to you can do for cancer patients, infants, and the elderly.
Well, the answer to the first part is the same way we’d do it if either of us got injured or sick in any other way. We’d be in trouble. 🙂
But the second part interests me.
I absolutely do not want to put others at risk, so I need good information about this.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/16 "2011-11-30T17:28:10Z")
> [@Pessemist](#):
>
> The vaccine is made from the strains of the previous years most prevalent flu virus.
It’s not the previous year, and ideally the vaccine will map well to the mutations the virus will undergo in the months between the time the vaccine is developed and the time people get the shot. Some years it’s very accurate and other years it isn’t as good. It’s true the vaccine only includes certain strains.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/17 "2011-11-30T17:41:20Z")
[Details on vaccine manufacturing from the CDC:](http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/fluvaccine.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> Influenza vaccine production begins as early as 6-9 months before the beginning of vaccine distribution. Even with this early start, it isn’t possible to complete the entire production and distribution process prior to the vaccination season
They say elsewhere that vaccine shipments start in August, so that would mean production begins as early as December to February. So that would mean “the previous year” was accurate.
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### Author:  [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/18 "2011-11-30T18:00:12Z")
You can also get flu-like symptoms if you react to the shot, so I’ve heard.
I get the shot every year.
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### Author:  [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/19 "2011-11-30T18:13:18Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> I’ll have to ask him once he’s been up awhile, but I think Tommymann probably stated a lot of his thinking.
>
> Why invite illness (maybe) when we’re perfectly healthy and have been for years. I think I may have had an actual flu one time in my life, my husband can’t remember ever having one. We aren’t exposed to a lot of people right now either, so there is that.
>
> I should find out if we are required to have them if we get to open the deli. I know our son was required to in the Navy. That might solve the question for us.
If you open that deli, you’ll be interacting with the public. (We can _hope_ that you will be interacting with a lot of people!) It will be safer for them & for you to have had the flu shots. They do _not_ “invite illness.”
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### Author:  [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/20 "2011-11-30T18:16:06Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#):
>
> Well, the answer to the first part is the same way we’d do it if either of us got injured or sick in any other way. We’d be in trouble. 🙂
So, given that you can greatly decrease your chances of landing in this particular type of trouble with minimal effort or expense, why in the world _wouldn’t_ you do it? The fact that you’ve been lucky enough to avoid getting the flu before is not really relevant. It can happen to you.
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