# "Flu shots make me sick -- why on earth did I even bother?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 30, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551 "2011-11-30T13:47:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/21 "2011-11-30T18:26:42Z")
> [@Pessemist](#): > > Everyone is different and to say the vaccine is without some risk is not realistic. > > To illustrate just how different two people can be just take two kids: one allergic to peanuts and another not. Give them each a peanut butter sandwich and watch one fall over dead in anaphylactic shock while the second child asks for another. > > Pesse (I’ll pass on the shot…) Mist And that is why people like _me_ are volunteer guinea pigs for flu shots - we make sure that the shot itself is safe _unless you happen to be allergic to the growth medium_ and I would assume that if you are in fact allergic to the growth medium [like eggs is a growth medium] that you do not take any other vaccine. If you are NOT allergic to the growth medium then you can take the shot in perfect safety. You are an absolute idiot if you do not take the vaccination. Yes you may still catch a different variant of the flu, but those are the risks of not culturing every single flu strain in existence [several thousand I believe] In the years I have been a guinea pig, I have had the vaccination in pretty much every format available ranging from standard needle, to the little cluster of tiny needles to the air injection gun version. [I liked the airgun version, the least painful of all of them.] ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/22 "2011-11-30T18:46:21Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > What are his objections to getting the vaccine? > > Large employers, IMHO, _should_ give everyone the shots by default (allowing for opt-outs like **Bridget** ’s). Ours offers them for free, but doesn’t really pressure employees to take advantage of them. They should tie it to other incentives they give us for not smoking, etc. I know it peeves me when someone on my team calls in sick for a week with the flu when they refused a shot earlier in the season. My employer (a university) offered 300 free flu shots on a first-come, first-served basis. I got one of them and I’m glad I did. I got one for my son, too, and my husband got one for free at the hospital where he works (they’re mandatory). ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/23 "2011-11-30T19:02:51Z")
If you have ever had the actual flu (not just a bad cold) you will know the answer to your question. The common distinction is that with a bad cold you fear you may die; with the flu you fear you will not die soon enough. To put it another way, if you have the flu and the hottie of your choice is standing naked in the doorway with a gazillion dollars in his/her hand you will tell him/her to go away and close the door because the light is hurting your eyes. Or you will try to say that but you can’t because you are too weak. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/24 "2011-11-30T19:09:38Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > If you open that deli, you’ll be interacting with the public. (We can _hope_ that you will be interacting with a lot of people!) It will be safer for them & for you to have had the flu shots. They do _not_ “invite illness.” It’s a basic effort-benefit thing, surely? As I mentioned earlier, there has never been an epidemic of delis closed by flu epidemics in the UK, and I’d be amazed if one ever happened; so we don’t bother. It’s just not enough of a risk to register as needing pro-active action unless you’re in a high-risk group. If entire countries can get by just fine without having problems with flu, it’s danger must be exaggerated in the US (to my mind). For me, it kinda ranks alongside the risk of crossing a road or going out in a thunderstorm - just not things you worry about. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/25 "2011-11-30T19:18:42Z")
I think it’s false expectations combined with the general problem of being-in-time-for-the-new-strain: If the people getting the flu shot expect to not feel any reaction, no headache, tiredness, slight fever etc., to the shot, then they will complain of course, but have been misinformed. The purpose of the shot, as said partly already, is 1) stop spreading the virus - so if you work with elderly, children or the public, it’s a good idea 2) prevent yourself from getting the flu if you belong to an endangered group (elderly, immunocomprised etc.) - that is, if you are able to take the shot. The concern about catching the real flu is that for healthy people, the flu takes you out one week - not like a normal cold where you might drag yourself in, but one week at least of feeling like full shit, high fever, knocked out. For at-risk-people, flu can make them die. The [Flu epidemic 1918](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flu_epidemic_of_1918) killed more people than WWI. In both cases, a slight reaction is therefore obviously better than catching the real thing, but of course worse if you expect no reaction. Which isn’t realistic - there will always be reactions to shots, and mild fever is a very light reaction. So whoever is giving these shots should explain things better - but a doctor or nurse tasked with shooting up 20 people in one afternoon, I can understand them not wanting to take the time to explain in full detail for 20 min. to each single of them. So the paper where people sign up should be more detailed. The other problem is that the flu virus is mutating so wildly, and the manufacturers of the vaccine are playing catch-up to identify which strain will likely be dominant this year (guessing), then to produce a vaccine to it, then to manufacture and distribute it … all in time before the wild version of the strain can spread naturally. So they might be too late in identifying, or identify the wrong one, or the weather is so cold that people are weakened and catch it 3 weeks earlier than last year … And if you already have some other strain or normal cold or whatever strains your system, your body will react more to a shot than otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/26 "2011-11-30T19:24:53Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > It’s a basic effort-benefit thing, surely? As I mentioned earlier, there has never been an epidemic of delis closed by flu epidemics in the UK, and I’d be amazed if one ever happened; so we don’t bother. It’s just not enough of a risk to register as needing pro-active action unless you’re in a high-risk group. > > If entire countries can get by just fine without having problems with flu, it’s danger must be exaggerated in the US (to my mind). For me, it kinda ranks alongside the risk of crossing a road or going out in a thunderstorm - just not things you worry about. It doesn’t have to be a visible epidemic where all shops are closed to be deadly enough to vulnerable populations. If all nurses in old peoples homes and children’s nurseries get vaccinated on time, a lot of deaths are prevented, but you won’t see it in your neighborhood or hear it on telly. Likewise, if a bunch of old people die, does the media in your country always report it accurately as “the flu killed 1 000 people last winter”, esp. when it requires digging to seperate flu deaths from normal deaths? (Unless your disease control does the digging and presents the numbers). Look at the[figures of the pandemics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic) - and those were big ones; each year, many people die from the flu, but are not reported. (Every week, dozens of people die in car accidents, but most are not reported on TV, and only local ones may get into the newspaper). ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/27 "2011-11-30T19:30:04Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > If you have ever had the actual flu (not just a bad cold) you will know the answer to your question. The common distinction is that with a bad cold you fear you may die; with the flu you fear you will not die soon enough. Preach it. I used to be a slackass about getting a flu shot until I actually got the flu last winter. I will never skip it again. Now I like to pretend that if I collect enough serotypes I’ll become immortal. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/28 "2011-11-30T19:30:21Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > It doesn’t have to be a visible epidemic where all shops are closed to be deadly enough to vulnerable populations. If all nurses in old peoples homes and children’s nurseries get vaccinated on time, a lot of deaths are prevented, but you won’t see it in your neighborhood or hear it on telly. > > Likewise, if a bunch of old people die, does the media in your country always report it accurately as “the flu killed 1 000 people last winter”, esp. when it requires digging to seperate flu deaths from normal deaths? (Unless your disease control does the digging and presents the numbers). > > Look at the[figures of the pandemics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic) - and those were big ones; each year, many people die from the flu, but are not reported. (Every week, dozens of people die in car accidents, but most are not reported on TV, and only local ones may get into the newspaper). You missed the “vulnerable people get vaccinated” part of my post. It’s the average person who doesn’t, not the elderly or asthma sufferers etc. I assume nurses do, too, but I’m not one so I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![tommymann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@tommymann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tommymann)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/29 "2011-11-30T19:39:50Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > If you have ever had the actual flu (not just a bad cold) you will know the answer to your question… I’ve had the flu a couple times. I had Type E about twenty-five years ago and that really kicked my ass. I missed a week of work. The first day I felt better enough to get up I went to the living room, got in the recliner and watched a movie. After about an hour I felt so weak and tired I barely had the strength to stagger back to bed. I felt the effects for a month. Yet I choose not to get a flu vaccine since I’m one of those people who develop flu-like symptoms. Honestly after getting the vaccine I felt so lousy I decided, “Never gonna do this again.” I’ve had the flu once in twenty-five years. I’ll take my chances. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/30 "2011-12-01T00:31:56Z")
From [the CDC webpage on seasonal flu vaccine](http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/fluvaccine.htm): _Does flu vaccine work right away? No. It takes about two weeks after vaccination for antibodies to develop in the body and provide protection against influenza virus infection. In the meantime, you are still at risk for getting the flu. That’s why it’s better to get vaccinated early in the fall, before the flu season really gets under way._ That’s one more scenario causing people claim the flu shot was ineffective or gave them the flu - they were exposed to influenza too soon after getting the shot to have developed sufficient protective antibodies. I get flu shots every year for two reasons: one, it’s a simple and safe way to decrease the chance that I’ll get what at the minimum would be a nasty, debilitating disease; two, by getting immunized I’m lessening the chance that I will expose patients and visitors at the hospital where I work to a nasty, debilitating (and potentially fatal) disease. > [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I have never had a flu shot. I have also not been sick in years, that I can recall. I have not been injured in an auto accident for many years, so I don’t really need to wear seatbelts. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/31 "2011-12-02T01:40:56Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > I hear this _all the time_ from people who claim that flu shots actually make them sick. Is there any truth to the matter? Confirmation bias? I think Nocebo effect is the technical term. It is just that it is incredibly powerful. I consistently get light flu-like symptoms for a day or so after getting the shot (the CDC lists them as [common side effects](http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm)). But seriously, have people who say that never had a real flu? The side effects of the jab are nothing compared to being in bed for a week feeling like death. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/32 "2011-12-02T01:44:48Z")
> [@tommymann](#): > > Honestly after getting the vaccine I felt so lousy I decided, “Never gonna do this again.” I’ve had the flu once in twenty-five years. I’ll take my chances. One of the reasons for is likely that the people around WERE immunized. The way [herd immunity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity) works is that you are more likely to get the disease if you are immunized in a community that is not, than if you are not immunized in a community that is. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/33 "2011-12-02T03:04:08Z")
I started getting the vaccine about five years ago. First time, I was kind of achy and went to sleep early. Since then, nothing. I probably do not need the vaccine - I don’t get in crowds much, my spouse and most of my co-workers get it, so my exposure is low. But I could be exposed, and I could expose a co-worker before I knew, and they could expose a child or aging parent … Or, much worse, they could expose a perfectly healthy person to a flu like the one in 1918. I will be a good citizen and get my flu shot, just like I pay my taxes and drive on the right. I will respect that I am member of this society. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/34 "2011-12-02T12:03:09Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > And that is why people like _me_ are volunteer guinea pigs for flu shots - we make sure that the shot itself is safe _unless you happen to be allergic to the growth medium_ and I would assume that if you are in fact allergic to the growth medium [like eggs is a growth medium] that you do not take any other vaccine. Your assumption is wrong. Different vaccines use different growth or culture media. The influenza vaccines all use chicken embryos. Unfortunately for me, although I can apparently eat eggs, when the the protein is _injected_ into me my body tends to break out in hives, fluid leaks into my lungs, my airways go into spasm, and in general it is a _really_ unpleasant and scary event. In other words, I am allergic to egg-based vaccines. On the other hand, tetanus vaccines are listed as using “bovine extract” which does NOT cause my immune system to freak out, so I have zero problem getting tetanus vaccines. Well, zero _medical_ problems, a few years ago when I had no insurance I had trouble getting _access_ to the vaccine but I think you know what I mean. Other vaccines I need to avoid include the ones for yellow fever and rabies, although in the case of rabies the protocol for people like me is basically give the vaccine but have equipment on standby to handle anaphylaxis. This, among other reasons, is why I try really hard to avoid bites by wild animals. But pretty much any _other_ vaccine I should be able to handle just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/35 "2011-12-02T15:53:25Z")
I’ve never suffered flu-like symptoms after a shot, just minor discomfort at the injection site. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/36 "2011-12-02T16:57:47Z")
I generally get some sort of reaction to the shot - ranging from sore arm to mild flu-like symptoms for a day or so. Depends on the shot. However, I regard these as a small price to pay for the protection offered, so I get my shot every year. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/37 "2011-12-03T01:06:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The influenza vaccines all use chicken embryos. …[W]hen the the protein is _injected_ into me my body tends to break out in hives, fluid leaks into my lungs, my airways go into spasm, and in general it is a _really_ unpleasant and scary event. So, I get the vaccine, and people like **Broomstick** , who can’t, are at a lower risk. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/38 "2011-12-03T02:58:32Z")
And I thank you for that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/39 "2011-12-03T03:22:27Z")
Community. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551/40 "2011-12-03T05:23:58Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > And that is why people like _me_ are volunteer guinea pigs for flu shots - we make sure that the shot itself is safe _unless you happen to be allergic to the growth medium_ and I would assume that if you are in fact allergic to the growth medium [like eggs is a growth medium] that you do not take any other vaccine. If you are NOT allergic to the growth medium then you can take the shot in perfect safety. You are an absolute idiot if you do not take the vaccination. Yes you may still catch a different variant of the flu, but those are the risks of not culturing every single flu strain in existence [several thousand I believe] It’s a stretch to say anything is “perfectly safe” - the human body and our environment are way too complex for naive statements like that. My friend’s MIL got Guillain Barre from a flu vaccine in the 70’s and it took her about 3 to 5 years before the paralysis was completely gone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flu-shots-make-me-sick-why-on-earth-did-i-even-bother/604551.md?page=3)