# fluiddruid what the hell round two **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693 "2006-01-12T18:33:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/21 "2006-01-20T13:59:41Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > Oink, oink! > Seriously, it looks like the decision they made was “don’t do anything don’t say anything and maybe they’ll forget about it”. Good observation. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/22 "2006-01-20T15:35:17Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > Seriously, it looks like the decision they made was “don’t do anything don’t say anything and maybe they’ll forget about it”. Maybe they figured that nobody’s life was empty enough to continue to be worried about this. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/23 "2006-01-20T17:48:42Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Maybe they figured that nobody’s life was empty enough to continue to be worried about this. And yet your life is empty enough for you to find the time to pop in and belch some gas. I asked a question about moderation and it has not been answered. It is in the proper forum. If you don’t like it why don’y you just fuck away off? (Apologies to **bubastis**.) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/24 "2006-01-20T18:36:57Z")
I remembered this thread from over a week ago and was curious to see why it had been bumped. Now I see it’s because you can’t let it go. My reply is also in the proper forum. So why don’t you go get a life and just drop it? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/25 "2006-01-20T18:54:53Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > I remembered this thread from over a week ago and was curious to see why it had been bumped. Now I see it’s because you can’t let it go. > > My reply is also in the proper forum. So why don’t you go get a life and just drop it? I am not complaining about the position of your reply; just that of your head. ‘Not letting go’ might apply if in fact an answer had been forthcoming in the past week and I had pissed and moaned and quibbled about it, sort of like what you are doing here. However, such is not the case and you know it. Again, if the answer to the question does not interest you, why are you hanging around? Surely you have better things to do than take pot shots at such empty souls as myself. It would be childs play to interrupt every one of your threads to ask why the hell you care. It would also be rude, annoying, infantile, and pointless, as is your behavior here. Why do you care if I have a life or not? Really, just piss off. Your objection is noted. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/26 "2006-01-20T18:59:40Z")
Fine then. Since **fluiddruid** didn’t bother to respond a week ago, I highly doubt she’ll answer now, but whatever. Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/27 "2006-01-20T19:05:43Z")
It was a valid question then, it’s a valid question now, and it’s a good thing that this thread was bumped. Hopefully **Fluiddruid** will answer, and I do think that we can reasonably expect some elaboration from her or another staff member. It would be nice to know, for instance, if **CBGringoHater** is protected from up on high from any Pit threads started calling him out, or if it was just that Pit thread, or what. It’d be nice to know _what_ went “too far”, and if any rules were broken and/or if any are being reconsidered, etc… It’s certainly not beyond the pale to ask these questions in a Pit thread, or to expect that there would be some sort of answer within a week of the initial question. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/28 "2006-01-20T19:11:22Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Fine then. Since **fluiddruid** didn’t bother to respond a week ago, I highly doubt she’ll answer now, but whatever. Have fun. Actually, **fluiddruid** _did_ bother to respond a week ago, in the first (and closed) version of this thread: > [@fluiddruid](#): > > The thread was closed as it HAD gone far enough, and moderators were discussing some potential violations. I saw the potential for re-opening but we wanted to discuss a multitude of post reportings and e-mails first. In other words, **fluiddruid** specifically said they were taking their time deciding what to do, so chill out already. Well, it’s been a week and **Contrapuntal** is wondering what it is that was so important that they be given time to do. If anything. It’s a legitimate thread resurrection and question. If the Jack Booted Mod Gang has decided to do nothing, as appears to be the case, then the question comes to mind whether or not [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=353706) might be re-opened. Got it? ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/29 "2006-01-20T19:53:44Z")
I seem to remember that at one time someone posted in nothing but a foreign labguage and got bitch-slapped for it. Is it a rule that posting should be done in English or not? I can understand posting in a different language for humorous reasons or to make some obscure-I’m-smarter-than-you point, such as in latin but is there a rule against posting in nothing but another language just to be a dick? ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/30 "2006-01-21T17:18:24Z")
> [@Xploder](#): > > I seem to remember that at one time someone posted in nothing but a foreign labguage and got bitch-slapped for it. Is it a rule that posting should be done in English or not? I can understand posting in a different language for humorous reasons or to make some obscure-I’m-smarter-than-you point, such as in latin but is there a rule against posting in nothing but another language just to be a dick? The SDMB is primarily a board for English-speaking users. As we do not have a moderating staff capable of understanding every and any language, we ask that you not post solely in another language. It has a large capacity of abuse of board rules. Posting does not have to be done entirely in English, but should be relevant to the thread and in turn the bulk of your post’s meaning should not be obscured. Now, back to the original issue. Sorry for my tardiness to this thread; I have been very busy this week with work and family matters. ( **Contrapuntal** did e-mail me regarding the matter, so I feel it is appropriate to respond publicly as it was in reference to this thread.) The rules discussion was regarding hate speech rules. We had a great number of reported posts from the thread in question and we were discussing if, in fact, there were hate speech violations in the thread. We came to the conclusion that “hate speech” cannot, and should not, be limited to a list of forbidden words. No word is wholly unsuitable for the SDMB regardless of the context of the discussion. Hate speech comes from the context, intent, and general meaning of what the user is saying. Clearly, some users were offended by the thread and the use of the word “gringo”. I am loathe to say that the rule about hate speech is that this offends someone, because the nature of the Pit is such that posts will often offend and are intended to offend. Being offensive does not mean that something is hateful. Frankly, as a moderator I find some comments directed at me to be offensive, but that does not make them hateful or otherwise unsuitable for the SDMB. Likewise, various other Pittings will likely be offensive to some users, in particular those targeted. It’s a balance; we want freedom of discussion as much as possible, but obviously there are important limits. We have had situations in the past with very hateful things being posted and they are not appropriate for this venue. My call on the matter of the closure, which was discussed with the moderating staff, was that the original thread was a powder keg. The matter was dredged up again to hijack another thread, and two users were warned. Generally, I would not re-open such a thread, and I do not see a reason to do so in this case either. I am willing to discuss the matter if someone has something that they feel is vital to contribute, but generally it is not uncommon for threads to remain closed after it has generated a warning, and in particular multiple warnings. Frankly, I feel that there was a lot of jerkish behavior in that thread and I think that it is likely that more warnings would be forthcoming were the thread reopened – hence why, as I repeat now, that I think that thread had gone far enough. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/31 "2006-01-21T18:21:16Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Clearly, some users were offended by the thread and the use of the word “gringo”. I am loathe to say that the rule about hate speech is that this offends someone, because the nature of the Pit is such that posts will often offend and are intended to offend. Being offensive does not mean that something is hateful. Frankly, as a moderator I find some comments directed at me to be offensive, but that does not make them hateful or otherwise unsuitable for the SDMB. Likewise, various other Pittings will likely be offensive to some users, in particular those targeted. Well, are those comments based on your nationality and ethnicity or are they based on your status as a moderator? In the issue at hand, the “g-word” was clearly based on the nationality/ethnicity qualifier. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/32 "2006-01-21T18:24:22Z")
Oh, also the “g-word” was being used in that thread by one user purposely (or apparently purposely, if you will) in a manner identical to the offensive use of the “n-word.” ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/33 "2006-01-21T21:19:42Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Clearly, some users were offended by the thread and the use of the word “gringo”. In my thread about hate speech in the Pit, many posters expressed offense at the phrase ‘white trash.’ However in that thread, the moderaters jumped in to explain why that phrase was _not_ hate speech, even if it is offensive. Do you sense an inconsistency, perhaps even an hypocrisy here? I do. If hate speech is defined by who is offended by it, I renew my request either to eliminate the rule altogether, or accept that ‘white trash’ is indeed offensive, and therefore off limits. > [@fluiddruid](#): > > Frankly, I feel that there was a lot of jerkish behavior in that thread and I think that it is likely that more warnings would be forthcoming were the thread reopened – hence why, as I repeat now, that I think that thread had gone far enough. I have no interest in re-opening the thread. I simply wanted an explanation. How hard would it have been to have stated exactly what had gone on long enough in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/34 "2006-01-21T22:38:35Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > In my thread about hate speech in the Pit, many posters expressed offense at the phrase ‘white trash.’ However in that thread, the moderaters jumped in to explain why that phrase was _not_ hate speech, even if it is offensive. Do you sense an inconsistency, perhaps even an hypocrisy here? I do. If hate speech is defined by who is offended by it, I renew my request either to eliminate the rule altogether, or accept that ‘white trash’ is indeed offensive, and therefore off limits. What **fluiddruid** said was the thread was closed so we could discuss the issue of hate speech since it seemed to upset several people, _not_ that the thread was closed because gringo is hate speech. The thread was not ruled to be hate speech, but the general consensus was that since it had devolved into nothing but **CB** being a dick, there was little use in reopening it. As for “why isn’t term X hate speech?”, we don’t want to enforce a long list of taboo words, and thus are being fairly rigid in our definition of what constitutes hate speech. Banning any and all racially charged words simply out of a sense of consistency would greatly restrict discussion and give users endless ammo to try to resolve their disputes via mod instead of via debate. If someone is offending you, my advice is to pull up your diaper and Pit them (or take it off and throw it at them, either way). Confront their ignorance head-on. Even if you don’t change the mind of whoever is pissing you off, you may change the minds of a bystander or two. > [@](#): > > I have no interest in re-opening the thread. I simply wanted an explanation. How hard would it have been to have stated exactly what had gone on long enough in the first place? You’re right, one of us probably should have come back and posted to your thread. However, by the time a consensus was reached to leave the thread closed, yours had slipped off the page and thus off the radar. Whaddya want, we’ve got the attention spans of hummingbirds. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/35 "2006-01-21T22:39:06Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > In my thread about hate speech in the Pit, many posters expressed offense at the phrase ‘white trash.’ However in that thread, the moderaters jumped in to explain why that phrase was _not_ hate speech, even if it is offensive. Do you sense an inconsistency, perhaps even an hypocrisy here? I do. If hate speech is defined by who is offended by it, I renew my request either to eliminate the rule altogether, or accept that ‘white trash’ is indeed offensive, and therefore off limits. I don’t understand the problem. We came to the conclusion that there was not hate speech in that thread; if neither example is hate speech, why is there an inconsistency? > [@](#): > > I have no interest in re-opening the thread. I simply wanted an explanation. How hard would it have been to have stated exactly what had gone on long enough in the first place? How hard is it to understand that it’s a lot easier to close the thread, come to a consensus on the issue, and then gauge if it should be reopened rather than having to make and retract statements to our userbase? On the one hand you’re crying inconsistency, and on the other you’re demanding we instantaneously make a decision with far-reaching implications. Not really fair, in my opinion, but if you’re fine with the thread staying closed, I consider the matter ended. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/36 "2006-01-21T22:43:13Z")
Thanks, **Giraffe** – you’ve both beaten me to the punch and posted a better response. Ah well. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/37 "2006-01-21T22:49:09Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Thanks, **Giraffe** – you’ve both beaten me to the punch and posted a better response. Ah well. It’s those long legs of his, he can cover a lot of ground. To say nothing of beating you by a neck. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/38 "2006-01-21T22:52:01Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > It’s those long legs of his, he can cover a lot of ground. To say nothing of beating you by a neck. _:: takes off diaper, throws it at **ETF** ::_ ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/39 "2006-01-21T23:35:18Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > _:: takes off diaper, throws it at **ETF** ::_ Just don’t eat the sanwiches. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693/40 "2006-01-22T00:25:53Z")
Just call me curious, but, someone saying something like “Damn Mexican lazyness” or “Damn African American thievery” or “Damn Jewish moneygrubbing” would be over the line, yes? Simply out of curiousity, what then is the difference between those and “Damn gringo hypocrisy?” Especially when they were all used with the exact same intent? > [@Fluiddruid](#): > > Hate speech comes from the context, intent, and general meaning of what the user is saying. Which of these tests did the previous posting fail? It seems that it satisfies all three. > [@Giraffe](#): > > Banning any and all racially charged words simply out of a sense of consistency would greatly restrict discussion and give users endless ammo to try to resolve their disputes via mod instead of via debate. But wasn’t it about the context? I don’t know what abuse reports you’ve gotten, but from the thread the idea seemed to be that the word “gringo”, in a vacuum (upright or canister) was fine, but that in its context it was a deliberate attempt to slander an entire nationality/ethnicity. I’m wary to call a strawman here, but I don’t think that the general thrust of the argument was that gringo should be banned, but that the way it was being used was objectionable. No? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluiddruid-what-the-hell-round-two/339693.md?page=3)