# Fluoride in Drinking Water: Good? Bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004 "2010-01-22T16:58:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/41 "2010-01-27T19:37:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m surprised no one has yet mentioned that some governments, including Canada’s, require the addition of iodide to table salt. Iodine is also a very deadly poison. Never mind the iodine, what about the NaCl in table salt? From the [MSDS profile](http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/S3338.htm) of that chemical: _“Molecular Weight: 58.44 Chemical Formula: NaCl… Ingredient CAS No Percent Hazardous… WARNING! CAUSES EYE IRRITATION…Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; PROPER GLOVES…Potential Health Effects…can cause vomiting, diarrhea, and prostration. Dehydration and congestion occur in most internal organs. Hypertonic salt solutions can produce violent inflammatory reactions in the gastrointestinal tract. Skin Contact: May irritate damaged skin; absorption can occur with effects similar to those via ingestion. Eye Contact: Causes irritation, redness, and pain. (For salt concentrations greater than the normal saline present.)…First Aid Measures Inhalation: Remove to fresh air. Get medical attention for any breathing difficulty. Ingestion: If large amounts were swallowed, give water to drink and get medical advice…Special Information: In the event of a fire, wear full protective clothing and NIOSH-approved self-contained breathing apparatus with full facepiece operated in the pressure demand or other positive pressure mode…6. Accidental Release Measures Ventilate area of leak or spill. Wear appropriate personal protective equipment as specified in Section 8. Spills: Sweep up and containerize for reclamation or disposal. Vacuuming or wet sweeping may be used to avoid dust dispersal… Handling and Storage Keep in a tightly closed container, stored in a cool, dry, ventilated area. Protect against physical damage. Containers of this material may be hazardous when empty since they retain product residues (dust, solids); observe all warnings and precautions listed for the product…”_ Holy crap! And they sell this stuff right out in the open in stores! It’s in most of our processed foods!!! ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/42 "2010-01-27T20:08:49Z")
> [@robby](#): > > If you’re going to get into facts, you might start with the fact that this is a reversible equilibrium reaction, more properly written as: > > NaF _(s)_ -----\> Na[sup]+[/sup] _(aq)_ + F[sup]-[/sup] _(aq)_ > > F[sup]-[/sup] _(aq)_ + H[sub]2[/sub]O _(l)_ \<-----\> HF _(aq)_ + OH[sup]- [/sup]_(aq)_ > > This reaction does not proceed very far to completion. The amount of HF and hydroxide produced is miniscule. I can calculate the concentrations, but it will take a second. If you start with the maximum allowable concentration of fluoride (4.0 ppm), at room temperature, you will produce 2.5 x 10[sup]-8[/sup] moles/liter of HF and hydroxide, which corresponds to 0.5 parts per **billion** (ppb) of HF. The hydroxide will shift the pH of the water from 7.00 (neutral ) to 7.10. (The hydroxide produced is an order of magnitude smaller than the hydroxide already present in neutral water.) I wouldn’t worry about it, **septimus**. :rolleyes: ETA: Just noticed the uranium hexafluoride and _Dr. Strangeglove_ references. Am I perhaps being whooshed? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/43 "2010-01-27T20:23:02Z")
> [@itsme1234](#): > > I`m in Canada. I missed that you were in Canada in my previous response to your post. In any event, Canada is not a third-world county, last I heard. > [@itsme1234](#): > > …Here its not so much that the tap water is undrinkable, but moreso the fact that most people choose to drink the bottled kind. Most people are idiots. > [@itsme1234](#): > > …I drink both tap and bottled water, and in the winter, the water comes out of the tap almost ice cold. For those who want cold tap water even in the summer, it’s easy to refrigerate containers of tap water. The fancy refrigerators and public water fountains do the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/44 "2010-01-27T20:28:26Z")
P.S. That calculation I gave the results of in Post #42 ended up being a much bigger pain in the neck than I expected because the starting concentration of fluoride was so low. I hope I didn’t make any dumb mistakes along the way. P.P.S. No, I didn’t use activities, either. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/45 "2010-01-27T20:39:17Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Just noticed the uranium hexafluoride and _Dr. Strangeglove_ references. Am I perhaps being whooshed? :dubious: Well, I’m not up on left-wing lingo, so I’m not sure about “whooshing,” but in the quote: “Fluoride is also a key ingredient of Uranium hexafluoride, used by Soviets _ **and the French** _ in the manufacture of their atomic weapons,” I was hoping to elicit a chuckle with the part I’ve now emphasized. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/46 "2010-01-27T20:42:53Z")
[Use of bottle water said to increase cavities in US.](http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/146390.php) ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/47 "2010-01-27T21:01:03Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Well, I’m not up on left-wing lingo… 😕 What left-wing lingo? > [@septimus](#): > > …but in the quote: “Fluoride is also a key ingredient of Uranium hexafluoride, used by Soviets _ **and the French** _ in the manufacture of their atomic weapons,” I was hoping to elicit a chuckle with the part I’ve now emphasized. 😛 Personally, I think that the key ingredient in uranium hexafluoride is the _uranium_. 🙂 The fluoride is incidental–it gives you a gaseous compound of uranium that can be run through centrifuges. Again, the fact that an element is part of a dangerous compound doesn’t make the element in and of itself necessarily harmful. Chlorine is present in mustard gas…and table salt. Lastly, do you mean to say that, other than the part of your post that you have now emphasized, you really were serious? If so, I really don’t know what to say. Other than the fact that you are factually incorrect to state that significant quantities of HF and hydroxide are produced by adding fluoride to water, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/48 "2010-01-27T22:19:53Z")
> [@InterestedObserver](#): > > Oh, and yes, it is a fact that both the Nazis and the Soviets used fluoride in their concentration camps to pacify the populations. It does have verified “mind control” (also known as neurological) effects. Cites, please, for the following: 1. The use of fluoride in Nazi and Soviet prison camps, for mind control (not dental health) 2. The mind control effects of fluoride in those cases. 3. The method by which fluoride was given to prisoners, ie. in drinking water, pills, etc. 4. The dosage at which mind control effects were observed, ie. mg per kg per day, fluoride concentration in blood, etc. Optional Extra Credit! Compare the ‘mind control’ dosage with typical modern day municipal water supply concentration. Really Optional Extra Extra Credit! Use only peer-reviewed sources. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/49 "2010-01-27T22:24:21Z")
Man if fluoride in the water scares people, wait until they find out there is a whole [industry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron_emission_tomography) out there that is based around manufacturing _radioactive_ fluoride. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/50 "2010-01-27T22:32:45Z")
> [@itsme1234](#): > > I`m in Canada. Here its not so much that the tap water is undrinkable, but moreso the fact that most people choose to drink the bottled kind. I drink both tap and bottled water, and in the winter, the water comes out of the tap almost ice cold. You say that like it’s a BAD thing. I use a Britta filter, partly for the filtering but also because I love cold refrigerated water. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/51 "2010-01-27T22:34:58Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > You say that like it’s a BAD thing. I use a Britta filter, partly for the filtering but also because I love cold refrigerated water. If you don’t pour bottled water into your Britta, I’m not sure what your comment has to do with what you quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/52 "2010-01-27T22:41:21Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > If you don’t pour bottled water into your Britta, I’m not sure what your comment has to do with what you quoted. I’m saying I’m not sure why having cold water from your tap is a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/53 "2010-01-27T22:56:35Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > You say that like it’s a BAD thing. I use a Britta filter, partly for the filtering but also because I love cold refrigerated water. Oh, gotcha. Perhaps those Canadians suffering from Cold Tap Water Syndrome could construct some sort of self contained water heating apparatus and then have dials that would allow them to mix the naturally cold tap water with the heated tap water to achieve optimum tap water output temperature. Lord knows that only the finest minds of the north could create a solution to their problem. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/54 "2010-01-28T01:22:02Z")
I use a Britta too. Ok, I grew up on Fluoridated water. I have had 2 cavities in my life. My kids grew up on an artesian well without Fluoride. Both have had many cavities and my 25 year old son has had 2 root canals at 25. I think Fluoride does reduce cavities. It also may be harmful in the long run. I didn’t know Hitler used it but it doesn’t surprise me. Wow, mind control from Fluoride tablets. They don’t fluoridate my town water but they use a lot of Chlorine. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/55 "2010-01-28T01:37:46Z")
Of course it’s bad for you. [Just look what it did to this poor woman!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX8ppB-wKEQ) It’s true. It’s on YouTube. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/56 "2010-01-28T01:44:14Z")
> [@itsme1234](#): > > I`m in Canada. Here its not so much that the tap water is undrinkable, but moreso the fact that\*\* most people\*\* choose to drink the bottled kind. [Statistics Canada](http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/consumers/bottled-water.html) … reported that [only] three in 10 Canadian households consumed bottled water in 2006. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/57 "2010-01-28T01:45:32Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Of course it’s bad for you. [Just look what it did to this poor woman!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX8ppB-wKEQ) It’s true. It’s on YouTube. I notice that: 1. Comments have been disabled on that video, and 2. Judging from her other videos, she believes every crackpot health conspiracy there is . ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/58 "2010-01-28T03:57:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I notice that: > > 1. Comments have been disabled on that video, and > 2. Judging from her other videos, she believes every crackpot health conspiracy there is . Well anyhow, that’s certainly what advanced…_something_…looks like. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/59 "2010-01-28T04:12:55Z")
My kids have never had any cavities. My pre-flouridation cavities have left me with two fine gold crowns and two molars that should have, if I had dental insurance, crowns but which will probably continue to have chunks torn out by such hard-to-chew foods as freakin’ BREAD! (Dentist: “It is soft but it creates suction as you chew that pulls…”) My kids follow a dental regimen vastly inferior to my own (at a point our dentist was a Dr Root and I long believed the Root Canal was named after him). At this age their teeth should be basket cases, but they aren’t. Screw our Precious Bodily Fluids. They and I may (but the science denies it) may battle any attacks, but at least my children will do so with molars that aren’t afraid of chewing Corn Nuts. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004/60 "2010-01-28T04:16:26Z")
You’ve been captured by the governments WIFI mind control and the mining industry who attempts to pawn off industrial waste as ‘helpful’ to the public, instead of what it really is…a way to dump toxic waste on the American public and make the country safe for communism. ☹ -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-in-drinking-water-good-bad/526004.md?page=4)