# Fluoride - Pineal Gland blocker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178 "2012-08-30T19:03:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/21 "2012-08-30T20:28:11Z")
Have a cousin who stopped drinking fluoridated water about ten years ago, yep her mouth is a disgusting rotted maw. Her sister and parents all have beautiful teeth YMMV **CAPT** ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/22 "2012-08-30T20:45:44Z")
> [@thebizness](#): > > i disagree… i would consider it forced when your public water supply contains fluoride. you really have no means of avoiding it unless you set up a custom filtration system. it should be the other way around. CLEAN H2O, and if you want fluoride you can get a fluoride additive filter. But I like flouride in my water. And I like not having to buy a flouride additive filter (do those even exist?) to get it. Fouridated water provides a benefit. There is no downside to it - despite your better mood, lo these past months. Why fix what ain’t broken? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/23 "2012-08-30T20:53:13Z")
I suppose one COULD always look at the data between countries that use fluoridation and ones that don’t and compare the rates of tooth decay between them… …Naw! Why would anyone do something silly like that? Especially when everybody knows that there are no benefits to fluoridation, and that it’s really a government conspiracy to destroy the public’s health AND control their minds!! I mean, all the evidence points to it being a massive conspiracy, and every 1st world nation in the world is in on it, as well as every corporation…plus cats! They are all in on it too, the furry little bastards! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/24 "2012-08-30T20:58:46Z")
One thing usually left out of this type of discussion is that fluoridation is not just adding fluoride to the water supply. It is about regulation the fluoride in the water supply. That means in some places they add some and in some places they take some out. See the reason we found out that fluoride prevents tooth decay is it is naturally occurring in some water sources. From [this](http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4058) very good article on the subject: > [@](#): > > So how did fluoridation become a normal part of municipal water supply? It all goes back to an early 20th century dentist named Dr. Frederick McKay, who practiced dentistry in Colorado, and noticed that a lot of his patients seemed to have brown teeth. In Texas, brown teeth were so prevalent that they were simply called “Texas Teeth”. Dr. McKay spent 30 years investigating the cause. Why? Because it also turned out that people with Texas Teeth also had extremely low levels of dental decay. If you had brown teeth, you were only 1/3 as likely to have cavities. > > Finally, in 1931, it was determined that naturally occurring fluoride in the local drinking water was responsible for both the discoloration and the lack of decay. Texas and Colorado had extremely high levels of natural fluoride, causing the discoloration, a condition now known as dental fluorosis, which is harmless if a tad unattractive. Years of research and testing in different cities and states, conducted by the National Health Service, determined that one part per million was the ideal proportion, giving the same protection from decay, and avoiding the dental fluorosis. Ever since then, it has been the standard practice to regulate fluoride levels in municipal water supplies to one part per million. There has been broad scientific and medical consensus for decades that one part per million of fluoride is best for health, and exactly zero rigorously conducted scientific trials that have indicated any sign of danger. For all practical purposes, it is an over-and-done-with issue. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/25 "2012-08-30T21:02:34Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I suppose one COULD always look at the data between countries that use fluoridation and ones that don’t and compare the rates of tooth decay between them… Just to be fair, the data would be a little hard to parse. There are a lot of European countries that don’t have public fluoridation of water without suffering mass tooth decay by relying on widespread adoption of fluoridated toothpaste or other products (France fluoridates its salt, for example). Comparisons to the 3rd world would be ok, though access to dental care and differences in overall health may make comparisons more difficult. Of course, that’s for folks who willfully ignore US history, which is a rather big win in terms of the benefits of fluoridation for dental health, as cited above. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/26 "2012-08-30T21:13:47Z")
[QUOTE=Great Antibob] Just to be fair, the data would be a little hard to parse. There are a lot of European countries that don’t have public fluoridation of water without suffering mass tooth decay by relying on widespread adoption of fluoridated toothpaste or other products (France fluoridates its salt, for example). [/QUOTE] I didn’t say public fluoridation of water…I said ‘countries that use fluoridation’. I suppose that IS a bit confusing, but what I meant was basically countries that either add fluoride in some form (such as your French example in the salt) actively, or promote or use products with fluoride additives in one form or another. Verse countries that don’t take any active steps at all nor promote or have wide availability of products with fluoride additives. Granted, this is going to break down along the lines of poor verse rich countries (at a guess), but that’s sort of the point…most 1st world countries DO add fluoride or have widely available products that add it in. At a guess the OP has never bothered to actually research this at even a cursory level, since s/he is unaware of any beneficial effects of fluoride (while making vague and scary asides about possible harmful effects and/or mind controlling conspiracies involving most governments, doctors, corporations AND mutant space kitteh for all I know). Anyway, it was only supposed to be a drive by joke. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/27 "2012-08-30T21:24:43Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Anyway, it was only supposed to be a drive by joke. 😉 Yeah, I got that, even if I didn’t express it clearly, but you know these CTers. You leave even the slightest little window for a rebuttal and suddenly, they want you to agree Elvis killed both JFK and RFK before shooting off to Mars on his Area 51 UFO to get mind control rays that forced the US government to detonate concealed bombs in the WTC on 9/11 while framing a bunch of innocent terrorists in a nefarious plot to fluoridate water to make people feel like spiritual crap. Oh, and something about the moon landing being a fake, too, for good measure. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/28 "2012-08-30T21:30:44Z")
By the way, **thebizness** , I think you’ve maybe already kinda answered your own question. > [@thebizness](#): > > I also remember my dreams more often than in the past and have lucid dreams from time to time. My knowledge of meditation and consciousness has obviously grown since then (through reading and research) Mkay, so you’re meditating and reading nice books about the mind and having some really cool dreams? Maybe you’re also taking a little bit of DMT from time to time? (No offense if you don’t, and I’m not trying to mock you or anything; but each and every time I’ve come across a person talking about unlocking the spiritual potential of the pineal gland, that person has always, _invariably_, also been a big fan of DMT.) So, yeah, maybe it’s a combination of those things which make you feel so good these days, rather than the whole “fuck fluoride” thing? ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/29 "2012-08-30T22:54:04Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Just to be fair, the data would be a little hard to parse. There are a lot of European countries that don’t have public fluoridation of water without suffering mass tooth decay by relying on widespread adoption of fluoridated toothpaste or other products (France fluoridates its salt, for example). > > Comparisons to the 3rd world would be ok, though access to dental care and differences in overall health may make comparisons more difficult. > > Of course, that’s for folks who willfully ignore US history, which is a rather big win in terms of the benefits of fluoridation for dental health, as cited above. Another problem is that developing countries don’t eat all of the sugary foods that developed countries do, thus one might expect rates of tooth decay to be lower in developing countries based on that alone. Also, it hasn’t been mentioned yet, but fluoride works by helping to remineralize enamel and actually modifies the structure of enamel to make a [harder more acid resistant mineral](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_enamel#Oral_hygiene_and_fluoride): > [@](#): > > Fluoride catalyzes the diffusion of calcium and phosphate into the tooth surface, which in turn remineralizes the crystalline structures in a dental cavity. The remineralized tooth surfaces contain fluoridated hydroxyapatite and fluorapatite, which resist acid attack much better than the original tooth did. Although, from reading that, to be really effective you need calcium and phosphates in addition to fluoride to be most effective (most toothpaste only advertises fluoride, although drinking water commonly has calcium in it and phosphates are added to prevent corrosion of pipes). ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/30 "2012-08-30T22:57:10Z")
> [@thebizness](#): > > I’m always initially a skeptic I doubt this. > [@thebizness](#): > > i just like to see both sides of things I’m having a hard time buying this either. You see, when someone proclaims how they were _initially skeptical_, and have an _open mind_, and then goes on to cite ludicrously unbalanced arguments which can easily be debunked by a quick Internet search of reliable sources run by professionals, I am just a weeny bit doubtful of their claims of open-minded, hard-nosed skepticism. I am doing post-doctoral studies on the phenomenon known as crank magnetism, and so am interested in what **thebizness** thinks about aspartame, chemtrails, 9/11 and vaccines. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/31 "2012-08-30T22:59:58Z")
> [@thebizness](#): > > I asked around, (dentist, orthodontist, doctor) and not a single one of them could give me the info I was looking for. They all beat around the bush. None of them would admit that it has ZERO beneficial effects, yet none of them would claim it did. I asked, “So what is the true purpose of Fluoride in dental products” and couldn’t get a straight answer. > [@Michael63129](#): > > Also, it hasn’t been mentioned yet, but fluoride works by helping to remineralize enamel and actually modifies the structure of enamel to make a [harder more acid resistant mineral](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_enamel#Oral_hygiene_and_fluoride): > > > [@](#): > > > > Fluoride catalyzes the diffusion of calcium and phosphate into the tooth surface, which in turn remineralizes the crystalline structures in a dental cavity. The remineralized tooth surfaces contain fluoridated hydroxyapatite and fluorapatite, which resist acid attack much better than the original tooth did. Wow. You must be some kind of super-dentist to have all that information at your fingertips. ---
**Author:** ![Mullion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@Mullion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullion)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/32 "2012-08-31T00:04:49Z")
thebizness… Have you stopped consuming iodized salt? Try it! Then you can have and remember fantastic dreams about goiters. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/33 "2012-08-31T01:10:29Z")
Hey, you know what else is in rat poison? DHMO. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/34 "2012-08-31T01:26:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Hey, you know what else is in rat poison? DHMO. Also, Vitamin D. That’s why I never go outside during the day - I don’t want the sun creating all that rat poison in my skin. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/35 "2012-08-31T02:06:59Z")
> [@Mullion](#): > > thebizness… > > Have you stopped consuming iodized salt? > > Try it! Then you can have and remember fantastic dreams about goiters. I’ve stopped consuming iodized salt (except for salt in processed foods). But that’s more about taste. Plus, we eat plenty of seafood in our household. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/36 "2012-08-31T02:16:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Hey, you know what else is in rat poison? DHMO. And DHMO is also in (horror of horrors) the public water supply! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/37 "2012-08-31T02:23:55Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I’ve stopped consuming iodized salt (except for salt in processed foods). But that’s more about taste. Plus, we eat plenty of seafood in our household. You can taste the difference? I thought it was only at such minor trace levels that no one would notice. (Well, don’t look at me: I can’t tell the difference between “good” black pepper and the cheap stuff, or between “good” black tea and the cheap stuff!) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/38 "2012-08-31T02:38:08Z")
> [@thebizness](#): > > i just can’t see how one of the ingredients in rat poison is truly beneficial to humans. there has to be a better alternative than fluoride to “prevent tooth decay”. And, for that matter, I can’t see how the ingredients in soap and bleach is truly beneficial to humans. I’ve just started to live on a 100% salt-free diet, and I’ve gotta tell you, I feel like absolute shit, and my spiritual brain cloud feels like it could really go for some frikkin’ onion rings. Learn some basic chemistry, really. It’s not that hard to understand. Also, have you ever considered you don’t have poor teeth _because_ you’ve been drinking and using fluoride since you were a kid? Here’s a [study on fluoride and adults](http://jdr.sagepub.com/content/86/5/410) from a dental journal I found just by doing a Google search. ---
**Author:** ![Mullion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@Mullion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullion)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/39 "2012-08-31T03:25:38Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > You can taste the difference? I thought it was only at such minor trace levels that no one would notice. > > (Well, don’t look at me: I can’t tell the difference between “good” black pepper and the cheap stuff, or between “good” black tea and the cheap stuff!) I thought it was silly as a kid when my buddy’s mom refused to eat iodized salt. Guess what she got at age 60? But you can taste the iodine… ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/40 "2012-08-31T05:02:11Z")
There is an excellent documentary which deals with forced fluoridation. [Here’s an excerpt](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0he-LZNzVg0); pay particular attention to the discussion 60 seconds into this excerpt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178.md?page=3)