# Fluoride - Pineal Gland blocker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178 "2012-08-30T19:03:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/61 "2012-09-03T03:40:05Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I cannot take the risk, for fear CIA operatives will attempt to drown me in wine. > > And with cheap Chianti too, not the good stuff. :mad: Insist on a butt of malmsey. It’s traditional… ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/62 "2012-09-03T09:46:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I cannot take the risk, for fear CIA operatives will attempt to drown me in wine. > > And with cheap Chianti too, not the good stuff. :mad: Yeah, but the CIA are crap at it. They apparently keep letting the secret out to random Internet losers. So you’re safe. Post your research! ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/63 "2012-09-03T17:13:16Z")
Study by Harvard School of Public Health (July 20, 2012) > **[News | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health](https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/)** > > The latest public health news delivered right to your inbox. > [@](#): > > For years health experts have been unable to agree on whether fluoride in the drinking water may be toxic to the developing human brain. Extremely high levels of fluoride are known to cause neurotoxicity in adults, and negative impacts on memory and learning have been reported in rodent studies, but little is known about the substance’s impact on children’s neurodevelopment. In a meta-analysis, researchers from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) and China Medical University in Shenyang for the first time combined 27 studies and found strong indications that fluoride may adversely affect cognitive development in children. Based on the findings, the authors say that this risk should not be ignored, and that more research on fluoride’s impact on the developing brain is warranted. > […] > Even though many of the studies on children in China differed in many ways or were incomplete, the authors consider the data compilation and joint analysis an important first step in evaluating the potential risk. […] > > They then analyzed possible associations with IQ measures in more than 8,000 children of school age; all but one study suggested that high fluoride content in water may negatively affect cognitive development. > > The average loss was only half of one IQ point, but some studies suggested that even slightly increased fluoride exposure could be toxic to the brain. Thus, children in high-fluoride areas had significantly lower IQ scores than those who lived in low-fluoride areas. The children studied were up to 14 years of age, but the investigators speculate that any toxic effect on brain development may have happened earlier, and that the brain may not be fully capable of compensating for the toxicity. > > “Fluoride seems to fit in with lead, mercury, and other poisons that cause chemical brain drain,” Grandjean says. “The effect of each toxicant may seem small, but the combined damage on a population scale can be serious, especially because the brain power of the next generation is crucial to all of us.” ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/64 "2012-09-03T18:49:17Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > Study by Harvard School of Public Health (July 20, 2012) > > [http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi.html](http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi.html) Critical reading skills are…critical > [@](#): > > **Even though many of the studies on children in China differed in many ways or were incomplete** , the authors consider the data compilation and joint analysis an important first step in evaluating the potential risk. “For the first time we have been able to do a comprehensive meta-analysis that has the potential for helping us plan better studies. A meta study of bad studies pointed to a statistically insignificant change in IQ. Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/65 "2012-09-03T19:19:38Z")
The Harvard news release notes that virtually all of the studies that went into the meta-analysis were from China, which raises a big red flag (the problem of publication bias in Chinese research is [well-documented](http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=skeptic;id=205;url=http%3A%2F%2Fhokum%2Dbalderdash%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F2010%2F04%2Fwhy%2Dstudies%2Dfrom%2Dchina%2Dshould%2Dbe%2Dtaken%2Ehtml)). For instance: \*"Zhenglun Pan et al. in “Local Literature Bias in Genetic Epidemiology: An Empirical Evaluation of the Chinese Literature” have this to say: Chinese studies typically suggest much stronger genetic effects than non-Chinese studies, and this may be even more prominent for the few studies that reach PubMed. Although Chinese studies are smaller than non-Chinese studies and thus even more underpowered, surprisingly half of them reach formal statistical significance for the evaluated gene-disease association. This exaggeration is seen across very diverse topics."\* ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/66 "2012-09-04T00:40:14Z")
I suggest people who are strongly averse to drinking flouridated water [purchase some non-flouridated water](http://www.ozarkah2o.com/index.php?water) and drink that instead. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/67 "2012-09-04T03:49:31Z")
Just to be thorough, the fallacy the OP seems to be falling toes over teeth for is called the [Fallacy of Composition.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition) ---
**Author:** ![mugaliens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mugaliens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mugaliens)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/68 "2013-04-23T07:07:35Z")
> [@thebizness](#): > > I asked, “So what is the true purpose of Fluoride in dental products” and couldn’t get a straight answer. Straight answer, though it is a multi-part answer: - Tooth enamel is a thin layer of hard material on the exterior of our teeth which protects our teeth from decay. - Tooth enamel doesn’t grow back when worn down, micro-pitted, or fractured. - Fluoride chemically combines with enamel to form a significantly harder outer layer. - Since even that wears away, however, frequent re-fluoridation is required. - If you eat healthy, exercise regularly, and faithfully stay away from all sweets and soft drinks, while brushing your teeth immediately after each and every meal, you can probably achieve similar results as the average person who regularly brushes with a fluoride toothpaste. But why not do both? Brushing with fluoride won’t harm you. Swallowing, however, is a different story. But toothpaste is stannus fluoride, which is somewhat different than the fluoride you’re getting from plants. Yes, plants. Virtually all plants contain… _GASP!_ fluoride. Black tea is quite high in it. Processed beverages and foods contain high amounts, as well. Using teflon pans nearly doubles your exposure. And mechanically deboned meats, especially chicken, contain high amounts, as well. [Source](http://www.fluoridealert.org/issues/sources/). Even if you eradicate all man-made sources, however, you’re still getting at least some fluoride in your food. Fresh, organic fruits and vegetables contain the least, but seafood contains a good bit more, as does tea. The good news is that in the doses found from purely natural sources, it’s not a bad thing, even if you’re ingesting it. Actually good for both teeth and bone. It’s the excessive amounts from man-made crap that are harmful. ---
**Author:** ![urban1a](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47c2d/32.png) [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/69 "2013-04-24T02:19:39Z")
> [@thebizness](#): > > I’ve heard a vast collection of stories, studies and theories on this. > > I’m always initially a skeptic, but after becoming very interested in the human brain/pineal gland/higher consciousness, I found the studies to have some merit. > > I asked around, (dentist, orthodontist, doctor) and not a single one of them could give me the info I was looking for. They all beat around the bush. None of them would admit that it has ZERO beneficial effects, yet none of them would claim it did. I asked, “So what is the true purpose of Fluoride in dental products” and couldn’t get a straight answer. > > So after that I stopped using Fluoride toothpaste, because I saw no legitimate benefit in using it. Unfortunately, fluoride is regulated and in just about every toothpaste formula out there… Tom’s and Burt’s Bees have non-fluoride alternatives, so I gave them both a try. Burt’s Bees was great and I’ve been using it for well over a year now. > > Has there been significant effects in which I can prove that Fluoride is a government administered brain clouder? No. However, I can say that I am in a much more spiritually sound place than I was two years ago. I also remember my dreams more often than in the past and have lucid dreams from time to time. My knowledge of meditation and consciousness has obviously grown since then (through reading and research), but regardless: Fluoride, Why? > > Benefits? Neg. Effects? Control of the masses? > > What is your opinion? Please make available your detailed medical and psychological records for the periods before and after your switch from fluoride so we can determine for ourselves. Thank you. Bob ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/70 "2013-04-24T04:29:01Z")
I just want to say, this thread was funny as hell and worth the read. If ignorance isn’t fought here, it’s most likely too embarrassed to return. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/71 "2013-04-24T05:13:43Z")
> [@Noel\_Prosequi](#): > > Colour me fascinated! Can you post any of your **researchy** goodness yet? I just want to say _this is a good word and bears repeating_ (as needed). ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178/72 "2013-04-25T01:16:42Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I’ve stopped consuming iodized salt (except for salt in processed foods). But that’s more about taste. Plus, we eat plenty of seafood in our household. I know this is an old thread, but this should be addressed. I have a friend, age 50, who followed the exact same logic as you, and who also eats a seafood-heavy diet. She now has a goiter. [The salt in processed foods does not typically contain iodine](http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iodine-HealthProfessional/). Unless you are eating ocean fish every day, or kelp every day, or large amounts of dairy every day, you may not be getting enough iodine. It is _possible_ to get enough iodine without iodized salt, but it is risky to count on that. [Good article on the forgotten dangers of iodine deficiency.](http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/oct2009_Halt-on-Salt-Sparks-Iodine-Deficiency_01.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fluoride-pineal-gland-blocker/633178.md?page=3)