# Flying cars ... finally here! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 27, 2022, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853 "2022-10-27T03:44:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/122 "2023-09-10T15:42:24Z")
Flying limousines and taxis will be here long before we have flying Camry’s for everyone. When considering costs, don’t forget that roads cost something too. Consider a “future city of tomorrow” (I know, let’s call it “EPCOT”; so poetic) that is designed with no roads; everything flies everywhere. One heck of a lot of infrastructure does not need to be built and maintained. That is a hefty hunk of cost avoidance. To be sure, existing cities and road networks will need to be maintained until/unless flying everything has been commonplace for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/123 "2023-09-10T15:52:43Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I also see lots of promise for the [Volocopter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volocopter). [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Volocopter\_at\_IAA\_2017\_1.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Volocopter_at_IAA_2017_1.jpg))]([https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Volocopter\_at\_IAA\_2017\_1.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Volocopter_at_IAA_2017_1.jpg) Q: when I see those type of drones, the (limited knowledge) physics in me asks - why aren’t there any ducts below the rotors to channel all moving air downwards (to maximize lift) … instead of spilling dirty air all over the place= I am sure there are reasons (cant be that I am the only genius amongst those people) … why no down ducts/chutes??? my WAG … ducts need to be too long to achieve any effect - but i am def. out of my depth here any takers? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/124 "2023-09-10T18:00:20Z")
Ducts improve prop efficiency … some; that’s good. They also weigh something; that’s bad. They also require the structure supporting them and the prop they surround to be stiffer and therefore heavier than if they were absent; that’s bad. For vehicles that tilt their props/rotors to align with the direction of flight they make some additional drag; that’s bad. For those machines that don’t tilt the props/rotors, or tilt them incompletely, and therefore lean the whole machine forward to make up the difference, in forward flight the ducts are big flat speedbrakes set partly or wholly sideways to the relative airflow; that’s extremely bad. The folks who design these things know how to work out the tradeoffs. The math is well-understood. I conclude the balance works out that ducts are usually more loss than they are worth in gain. ---
**Author:** ![ThisOneGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/125 "2023-09-11T18:15:08Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I don’t believe there have been any fatalities from flying cars. Responding to an older post, but if this counts as a “flying car” it had two deaths: [https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=2695](https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=2695) In 1973. This is an old quest with many failures. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/126 "2023-09-11T20:35:39Z")
[![](https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/AVE-Mizar-2.jpg) ](https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/AVE-Mizar-2.jpg) Wow. Anyone idiotic to go up in that thing should have made a will [beforehand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE_Mizar). > Even though the Pinto was a light car, the total aircraft without passengers or fuel was already slightly over the certified gross weight of a Skymaster. However, in addition to poor aircraft design and loose parts, the National Transportation Safety Board reported that bad welds were partly responsible for the crash, with the right wing strut attachment failing at a body panel of the Pinto. The Mizar is exactly why people rail at flying cars. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/127 "2023-09-11T20:52:36Z")
I wouldn’t get into a Pinto _without_ wings, let alone with them. From the Wikipedia article: > On a test flight from [Camarillo Airport](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camarillo_Airport) in California on August 26, 1973, according to test pilot Charles “Red” Janisse, the right wing strut base mounting attachment failed soon after takeoff. Because turning the aircraft would put too much stress on the unsupported wing, Janisse put the aircraft down in a bean field. After the roadway was closed to traffic, Janisse drove the otherwise undamaged aircraft back to the airport. > > On September 11, 1973, during a test flight at Camarillo, the right wing strut again detached from the Pinto. With Janisse not available for this test flight, Mizar creator Smolinski was at the controls. Although some reports say the Pinto separated from the airframe, air traffic controller Reed Weske, who was watching through binoculars, said the aircraft disintegrated after taking off and making a right turn.[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE_Mizar#cite_note-Flying_Automobile_Crashes_-_LA_Times-6) According to Janisse, the wing folded because the pilot tried to turn the aircraft when the wing strut support failed. Smolinski and the Vice President of AVE, Harold Blake, were killed in the resulting crash.[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE_Mizar#cite_note-Flying_Automobile_Crashes_-_LA_Times-6)[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE_Mizar#cite_note-7) Hey, that was exactly 50 years ago today. I guess we can say the Mizar is the nine-eleven of flying cars. Props to that test pilot, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/128 "2023-09-11T21:08:56Z")
And, ummm… that’s only half a Skymaster. No front engine. And they bolted/welded a freaking Pinto under it. I’m stunned it got off the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/129 "2023-09-11T21:22:10Z")
The trick isn’t getting off the ground. Apply enough power _anything_ can get airborne. The trick is _landing safely._ Which that “PintoMaster” apparently was incapable of doing. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/130 "2023-09-11T22:09:48Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Apply enough power _anything_ can get airborne. Ha. I’ve often said that about airplanes. It’s important to keep the wings on for a safe landing. And other stuff - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHuQy0mqW5I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHuQy0mqW5I) Huh. That’s an anvil launching video. Can’t get video link to work. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/131 "2023-09-11T22:51:02Z")
i think one of those aspects that get really underappreciated is how much the aerodynamics of a car suck as compared to a real plane … that alone will make it practically impossible and outright dangerous… but that chapter is closed, anyway … eVTOL does make a lot of sense compared to hitting a runway with a car to get airborne… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/132 "2023-09-18T02:14:04Z")
OMG. The future has arrived. You want flying cars, you’ll get flying cars. > **[Trump’s vision for 'freedom cities,' flying cars and more](https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2023/09/15/trump-policies-freedom-cities-flying-cards#)** > > Trump has outlined a series of policy goals in videos At the 0:47 mark in the video you see two streams of flying cars ~~flying dangerously close to one another~~ soaring above the very ordinary cars on a bridge. These cars will presumably be used to commute in the 10 Freedom Cities that Trump will build on federal land. Those of you in the massive flying car voting demographic need to take notice. Flying cars, baby! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/133 "2023-09-19T01:14:27Z")
Aha. I bet this is what Trump was referring to. > **[Hundreds of flying taxis to be made in Ohio, home of the Wright brothers](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/hundreds-flying-taxis-made-ohio-home-wright-brothers-103273164)** > > The same Ohio river valley where the Wright brothers pioneered human flight will soon manufacture cutting-edge electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/134 "2023-09-27T02:05:37Z")
> **[Air Force Receives Its First Electric Air Taxi - Slashdot](https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/09/26/2055200/air-force-receives-its-first-electric-air-taxi)** > > An anonymous reader quotes a report from the New York Times: The Air Force said on Monday that it had received its first electric passenger aircraft capable of taking off and landing vertically, a milestone for the companies that hope to one day sell... ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/135 "2023-10-13T12:22:46Z")
> Guangzhou-based Ehang on Friday said it received an airworthiness “type certificate” from the Civil Aviation Administration of China for its fully autonomous drone, the EH216-S AAV, that carries two human passengers. U.S.-listed Ehang claims it’s the first in the world to get such a certificate. “Next year we should start to expand overseas,” Ehang CEO Huazhi Hu said in an interview, via a CNBC translation of his Mandarin-language remarks. > **[China gives Ehang the first industry approval for fully autonomous,...](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/13/china-lets-ehang-operate-fully-autonomous-passenger-carrying-air-taxis.html)** > > Ehang shares have nearly doubled in price this year, before trading was temporarily halted Monday pending a significant announcement. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/136 "2023-11-14T16:14:43Z")
> **[Joby, Volocopter fly electric air taxis over New York City | TechCrunch](https://techcrunch.com/2023/11/13/joby-volocopter-fly-electric-air-taxis-over-new-york-city/)** > > Joby Aviation and Volocopter gave the public a vivid glimpse of what the future of aviation might look like this weekend, with both companies performing Joby: > **[Joby Aviation Flies in NYC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD_dF8YngpA%2F)** > > Joby Aviation flew its aircraft on Sunday, Nov. 12 off the heliport in downtown Manhattan. Volocopter: > **[Volocopter air taxi nyc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wIacnw0SXQ%2F)** ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/137 "2023-11-14T16:17:56Z")
Will they be allowed to fly down inside the NYC canyons? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/138 "2023-11-14T16:27:22Z")
Looks like it needs four parking spaces to land. Where ya gonna find that? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/139 "2023-11-16T15:13:20Z")
Four parking spaces? Hmm… Ed’s Air Taxi: from the far corner of a suburban WalMart parking lot to the far corner of a nearby suburban WalMart parking lot! ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/140 "2024-03-04T16:48:14Z")
> **[SpaceX-backed startup says preorders for its $300,000 futuristic flying car...](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/04/flying-car-firm-alef-hits-2850-preorders-worth-over-850-million.html)** > > Alef Aeronautics said preorders for its two-seater flying car, the Alef Model A, hit a fresh record, taking its total order value to date to over $850 million. So who has put down a pre-order? [unfortunately I don’t have a spare $300,000 laying around.] ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853/141 "2024-03-04T21:15:59Z")
Seeing 'SpaceX-Backed" in the headline made my scam sensors go up. It common for fanciful tech companies to try to gain legitimacy by associating themselves with a successful one. So I searched for information on SpaceX backing them. All I could find was that Tim Draper, an early investor in Tesla and SpaceX, has invested some money in them. Yet almost every story describes them as ‘SpaceX-backed’. They read more like press releases than actual journalism, which is what I expect feom the garbage tech press. I’ve also seen headlines describing it as “The FAA-approved Alef Flying Car”. The only ‘approval’ it has is for experimental test flights. You don’t need much for that. Some facts: The thing only weighs 850 lbs. It has no crash protection to speak of, and can’t be licensed as a road car. It would get the same privileges as a golf cart. It’s also limited to 25 mph on the ground, the same as golf carts and other ‘low speed’ vehicles like Bobcats. The only use case I can think of is… I dunno. Taking off from your driveway? Using it on a farm? I’m not really sure of the utility of a flying ‘car’ that is not road legal. They claim it has a range in air of 110 miles. This is not very consistent with the maximum weight of the vehicle at 850 lbs. I could not find the battery capacity listed anywhere, probably because it likely won’t add up. EV car batteries range from about 1,000 to 3,000 lbs. Even stripped down for aviation use, a battery that will fly 1,000 lbs 110 miles will likely weigh more than 850 lbs by itself. It’s advertised as a two seater, but max payload is 200 lbs. I guess two children… My back of the envelope calculation is that the thing would need more than 40kW to hover, And maybe 60kW for forward flight at cruise speed. So it probably needs a 60kWh battery to achieve its specs, assuming no reserve. Such a battery weighs over 1,000 lbs. Bosch is supposedly working on an ultra lightweight battery that will be about 450 lbs for 50kWh. Thst would leave 400 lbs for the rest of the aircraft, including 8 electric motors, propellers, and the whole structure. I consider all these flying cars to be vaporware until we see one actually fly the distance they claim with a full payload. Some of them are undoubtedly ‘exit scams’, where some people claim to have solved an in-demand problem, hype the daylights out it and try to build up the value to the point where they can sell it off to someone for enough money to get rich. Then scram before the whole thing falls apart under the weight of its engineering contradictions. I’m not saying Alef is doing that, but enough do that all such companies should be approached with a lot of caution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-cars-finally-here/973853.md?page=8)