# Flying first or business class **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 5, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518 "2011-01-05T19:01:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/21 "2011-01-05T20:49:39Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > 1. If I think that black people talk too loudly, can I ban them from first class on my airline? Also, Arabs make me nervous when I’m flying. Discrimination against black people or Arabs as a class by companies involved in the provision of interstate transportation services has been found to be constitutionally forbidden. Discrimination against toddlers by said companies has not been found to be constitutionally forbidden. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/22 "2011-01-05T20:50:40Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Discrimination against black people or Arabs as a class by companies involved in the provision of interstate transportation services has been found to be constitutionally forbidden. Discrimination against toddlers by said companies has not been found to be constitutionally forbidden. How about fat people? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/23 "2011-01-05T20:54:56Z")
Not constitutionally protected. maybe by state constitutions, and if the weight is a result of a disability, possibly under the ADA, but not under the federal constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/24 "2011-01-05T21:01:04Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Not constitutionally protected. maybe by state constitutions, and if the weight is a result of a disability, possibly under the ADA, but not under the federal constitution. I bet if I only restrict malodorous fat people, or the slender but esthetically-challenged I’d be completely in the clear, right? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/25 "2011-01-05T21:04:12Z")
Legally? Probably, depending how you worded it. Depending on the jurisdiction too - you probably want to plan for the most restrictive one, because as an airline you’ll be subject to many. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/26 "2011-01-05T21:05:05Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > 1. If I think that black people talk too loudly, can I ban them from first class on my airline? Also, Arabs make me nervous when I’m flying. That would be illegal discrimination. You can ban especially loud or loutish people in general. Might be hard to avoid a lawsuit if you decide a black guy is loud and loutish, though. > [@](#): > > 1. I’m trying to follow your “top-dollar” argument. A toddler in a $400 seat is allowed to disturb another passenger in a $400 dollar seat, but a toddler in $5000 seat is not allowed to disturb another passenger in a $5000 dollar seat? Well, this is obviously a business decision that the airline has to make, but it sounds okay to me. The $100,000 spent by the twenty people getting pissed off around the baby outweighs the $10,000 spent by the baby’s parents. The people in coach are paying for cheap transportation and are going to put up with the baby like they put up with all the other hassles in coach. > [@](#): > > 1. The biggest disturbance caused by babies is that they cry. Honestly, if you’re 30 feet away in first class, you’re still going to hear it. That doesn’t mean it won’t be less noticeable. > [@](#): > > Maybe you should spring for a private jet if you really need to transport yourself in a child-free environment. The airlines worry about their first-class passengers deciding to do exactly that. > [@](#): > > Why are you singling out children? Why not “no disturbances from any ill-behaved fellow passengers?” In any case, the fact remains that airlines will sell first-class tickets to children. Crying children are especially annoying. On Absolute Air, I would certainly kick out any adult from first class who manages to be as annoying as a crying child. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/27 "2011-01-05T21:15:03Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Maybe they should include complimentary oral sex by the flight attendants as well? Well, for 10 grand, I do expect a few perks. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/28 "2011-01-05T21:15:23Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > I was kind of focusing on the “historically” part of “historically oppressed”. What, you’re talking about child labor in 1910 or something? How does that have anything to do with preventing a spoiled, misbehaving brat from sitting in first class? ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/29 "2011-01-05T21:18:14Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > The airlines worry about their first-class passengers deciding to do exactly that. Apparently they don’t, since other than a vague story about a flight attendant on United, no one has shown that an airline will stop you from buying a first class ticket for your child. Incidentally, I just looked at Open Skies’ website (formerly L’Avion, the last of the short-lived all-business class airlines). They let me book a flight for 2 adults, a child, and an infant, and only charged half price for the infant ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/30 "2011-01-05T21:19:46Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > What, you’re talking about child labor in 1910 or something? How does that have anything to do with preventing a spoiled, misbehaving brat from sitting in first class? Very little. I just found it to be an incredible statement. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/31 "2011-01-05T21:21:29Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > How does that have anything to do with preventing a spoiled, misbehaving brat from sitting in first class? …wait…I’m confused…are you talking about yourself, or a child? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/32 "2011-01-05T21:31:59Z")
I am not aware of any airline today that would not sell a first class ticket to an infant that was accompanied by an adult. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/33 "2011-01-05T21:37:23Z")
You know, I’ve never run into any of these obnoxious noisy whiny crying kids on an airplane that everybody complains about. I DO sometimes wonder if they simply just grew up and got a job with the same folks I work for. And it really wouldn’t make sense for the airline to turn away a group of passengers who are willing to pay four grand a pop for their tickets. Remember: You aren’t banning a crying two year old, you’re banning the kid AND their folks, so that’s twelve grand you’re expecting the air lines to just give up that kind of money for the benefit of a passenger paying a third or less of that amount? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/34 "2011-01-05T22:02:33Z")
I fly a lot. It’s often first class (about 70-80% of the time). My flight this past Sunday had two legs. On the Tampa to Chicago flight I had a woman with an infant/toddler sitting behind me in first class. The kid did cry a bit. Really nothing you can do about it. On the Chicago LA leg there was a young kid in front of me, maybe 3-5 years old? She made some sort of howling noise quite a bit, although it sounded mostly of joy versus crying. She was actually more disturbing than the baby behind me. Many people flying first class domestically are just very frequent fliers like me and get comped upgrades. I’d estimate that’s 10-30% on any given flight. My ticket, RT, was around $800, btw. It was paid first class on the outbound journey but I only had economy on the return. I’ve already been upgraded on the return, which is tomorrow late. Note that the $10k flight was Chicago to London. Transoceanic flights are more expensive and first class on those flights is more exclusive. Business class on international flights is roughly analogous to first class domestic. I often flew international business with our kids when they were very young, including my sons first flight to Europe when he was two months old. He slept most of the flight and I don’t recall him crying much if at all. My daughter was two and a half at the time and also traveling with us. She sat in the seat between Mrs. Shibb and I while our son mostly slept in a bassinet that attached to the bulkhead. She also slept for the majority of the flight. My kids have always been relatively quiet and well-behaved, so YMMV. I have only on rare occasions actually been stuck near a crying kid for most of a long flight. I blame the parents. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/35 "2011-01-06T04:43:04Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > However, many first-class upgrades are discretionary by the airlines and they take things like that into account when they give them to people. Not necessarily. A number of years ago I met a couple that had an 18 month old child in the United Red Carpet Club. It seems that the parents traveled the world on business, and took their little one with them. They always flew either first or business, and since they had to buy a ticket for their little on, they got their baby a mileage plus card so the kid could accumulate his own miles. They said it was really a hoot when some business man with 200,000 lifetime miles did not get an upgrade because this baby with 500,000 miles was higher on the list. (With United the upgrades go under the rule of who has the most miles wins.) ---
**Author:** ![cherry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/36 "2011-01-06T06:35:39Z")
I’m a United Red Carpet Club member and my daughters first flight at 3 months was in first class. It wasn’t a problem. Now that she is two she has her own mileage plus number. They all recognize her at our red carpet club and we got the number generated there. Generally airlines are very accommodating. Especially in first class I found the passengers and crew to be helpful and nice and my kid to hopefully sleeping through each leg. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/37 "2011-01-06T11:37:25Z")
I’ve been following **Absolute** ’s and **Shmendrick** ’s discussion with some interest. It covers quite well the question whether it would be in the interest of the airlines to impose a minimum age. Unfortunately (from the point of view of **Absolute** ’s stance), the airlines don’t seem to fee that it would, since they don’t impose such an age limit and will, in fact, admit children and babies if the fare is paid for. Doesn’t that answer the OP’s question? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/38 "2011-01-06T12:07:27Z")
> [@Clark\_Cello](#): > > A few yers back, I flew with my then 6 month old daughter in first class. No one raised a stink. Interestingly, one of the flight attendants came over right after take-off, started cooing over her, and asked if she could hold her. She then held her and took care of her for much of the flight, often way up in front (it was only a 2 or 3 hour flight). I wondered if she was really that stricken with my daughter, or if that was her way to make sure all the other first class passangers were not bothered by a young child. Possibly both - I had a flight attendant spend a good 20 minutes playing with my one-year-old daughter and we were in economy. Or maybe she was also giving **you** a break from being bothered by a young child - all part of the service. I can also remember being on a flight in which the parents sat in first (or maybe business) class and their eight-year-old son sat by himself in economy (because hey, legroom isn’t an issue). He looked really miserable the entire trip. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/39 "2011-01-06T12:48:20Z")
> [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > Do most - or any - airlines have a minimum age limit to fly first or business class? I can imagine that anyone who is paying significantly more money would expect peace and quiet, enough so that babies and young children would not be allowed to fly in those sections. Am I right? FF here–well, 120 or so segments a year, anyway. There is no age restriction (even a lapchild is allowed) for flying First Class, unfortunately. Nor is there a hygiene, weight, general incompetence or anti-social behaviour screening. It’s all so sad. With specific respect to children: These are best left at home with the nanny until they are well-groomed and well-behaved, and have reached at least 25 years of age. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518/40 "2011-01-06T14:45:01Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > With specific respect to children: These are best left at home with the nanny until they are well-groomed and well-behaved, and have reached at least 25 years of age. That’s absurd. They’re barely edible at that point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-first-or-business-class/566518.md?page=3)