# Flying Proto-Israelite? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [March 20, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-proto-israelite/490174 "2009-03-20T15:41:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fish\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90ced4/32.png) [@Fish\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-proto-israelite/490174/1 "2009-03-20T15:41:04Z")
Just wanted to comment that Cain, the Biblical brother-slayer of Abel, is an incredibly old example of an exile. Although the Bible states that he ‘settled’ in the Land of Nod (good night Gracie?), there were plenty of legends throughout the Middle Ages about him still wandering the world. How he came to live that long and how he survived the flood are a mystery. But then again, 1000 years ago ‘just the facts, ma’am’ wasn’t really known. Thanks for the info on the ‘Dutchman’ him/itself. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-proto-israelite/490174/2 "2009-03-20T17:20:47Z")
If I recall aright, according to _Beowulf_, Cain was the ancestor of the Elves. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-proto-israelite/490174/3 "2009-03-23T21:23:50Z")
I take it this is a comment on the current Staff Report [on the Flying Dutchman](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2853/who-or-what-is-the-flying-dutchman) Just for future ref, it’s helpful to other readers if you provide a link in an OP when starting a thread. No biggie, you’ll know for next time, but it saves a lot of searching time and helps keep everyone on the same page (and lets them know what you’re commenting about!) ---
**Author:** ![firstname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ab992/32.png) [@firstname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/firstname)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-proto-israelite/490174/4 "2009-03-24T06:33:53Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > I take it this is a comment on the current Staff Report [on the Flying Dutchman](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2853/who-or-what-is-the-flying-dutchman) > > Just for future ref, it’s helpful to other readers if you provide a link in an OP when starting a thread. No biggie, you’ll know for next time, but it saves a lot of searching time and helps keep everyone on the same page (and lets them know what you’re commenting about!) Perhaps it would be a good idea to edit the title of the forum rules sticky, to reflect this, as it seems that linking to columns gets forgotten a lot. To Fish Herder this isn’t an attack on you, I’ve just noticed that it’s quite common. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-proto-israelite/490174/5 "2009-03-28T15:39:39Z")
> [@Fish\_Herder](#): > > Just wanted to comment that Cain, the Biblical brother-slayer of Abel, is an incredibly old example of an exile. Although the Bible states that he ‘settled’ in the Land of Nod (good night Gracie?), there were plenty of legends throughout the Middle Ages about him still wandering the world. How he came to live that long and how he survived the flood are a mystery. But then again, 1000 years ago ‘just the facts, ma’am’ wasn’t really known. Thanks for the info on the ‘Dutchman’ him/itself. You are right, of course. The only reason I started with Odysseus and not Cain is that Cain wandered the Earth, while the Dutchman and Odysseus wandered the sea, so the parallel is stronger. Doing some quick checking, the Odyssey was composed near the end of the eighth century BC. **Dex** and **Eutychus** wrote and excellent “Who wrote the Bible?” series of articles, and although [their article on the Pentateuch](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1985/who-wrote-the-bible-part-1) doesn’t mention when Cain and Abel’s story became part of the Israelite oral tradition, the Redaction was around 450BC. This does not necessarily mean that Odysseus’s story is older than Cain’s, rather that they are effectively as much part of the ancient roots of our own oral traditions. My failure to mention Cain, or any other exile story, does not mean they are not related to the Dutchman or the theme of exile. Neither does their omission imply I did not recognize the importance of a particular story. As I said in the piece, however: “A complete list of Mysterious Traveling Figures from world myth would be nearly impossible to compile.” I hope this answers your concerns, and thank you for posting about the article. I appreciate the feedback.